[Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA

[Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA

[Livingood, Jason]

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Forwarding on from a group doing some Starlink research. I am aware of at least one other researcher that will soon do the same and will forward that later (guessing a week or two).

Jason
///FORWARD///
We need volunteers! NetForecast, a leader in measuring the quality of internet service, is conducting a performance study of several types of internet delivery technologies, including low-earth-orbit satellite like Starlink.

As a volunteer, you will host one of our proprietary QMap Probes in your home network. This will connect to the internet via an available ethernet port on your gateway/router and plug into a standard power outlet. The QMap Probe is preconfigured to automatically test various network metrics with little burden on your available bandwidth. This data is used to estimate the quality of internet service. A public report of our findings will be published on our website in 2023. Please check out some of our existing reports to get a better feel of what we measure: https://www.netforecast.com/audit-reports/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.netforecast.com/audit-reports/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FrL2Yijo-63gS4PMToq0adfntj2fhza8ekyba1EbS8-tCgsQpg5MsIAYAvP5xUzLdDRa667bslUTtw_s0WpvvBpJEFKpAJeQfQ$>.

The QMap Probe requires no regular maintenance or monitoring by you. It may occasionally need rebooting (turning off and on), and we would contact you via email or text to request this. The device sends various test packets to the internet and records their response characteristics. Our device has no knowledge of -- and does not communicate out -- any information about you or any devices in your home.

We will include a prepaid shipping label for returning the QMap Probe in the original box (please keep this!). Once we receive the device back, we will send you a $200 Amazon gift card (one per household).

To volunteer, please fill out this relatively painless survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8VZSB3M<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.surveymonkey.com/r/8VZSB3M__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FrL2Yijo-63gS4PMToq0adfntj2fhza8ekyba1EbS8-tCgsQpg5MsIAYAvP5xUzLdDRa667bslUTtw_s0WpvvBpJEFJ_EHoUnA$>. Thank you!

///END///

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Re: [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA

[Vint Cerf]

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netforecast was started by a good friend of mine - they are first rate.

v


On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 3:53 PM Livingood, Jason via Starlink <
starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> Forwarding on from a group doing some Starlink research. I am aware of at
> least one other researcher that will soon do the same and will forward that
> later (guessing a week or two).
>
>
>
> Jason
>
> ///FORWARD///
>
> We need volunteers! NetForecast, a leader in measuring the quality of
> internet service, is conducting a performance study of several types of
> internet delivery technologies, including low-earth-orbit satellite like
> Starlink.
>
>
>
> As a volunteer, you will host one of our proprietary QMap Probes in your
> home network. This will connect to the internet via an available ethernet
> port on your gateway/router and plug into a standard power outlet. The QMap
> Probe is preconfigured to automatically test various network metrics with
> little burden on your available bandwidth. This data is used to estimate
> the quality of internet service. A public report of our findings will be
> published on our website in 2023. Please check out some of our existing
> reports to get a better feel of what we measure:
> https://www.netforecast.com/audit-reports/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.netforecast.com/audit-reports/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FrL2Yijo-63gS4PMToq0adfntj2fhza8ekyba1EbS8-tCgsQpg5MsIAYAvP5xUzLdDRa667bslUTtw_s0WpvvBpJEFKpAJeQfQ$>
> .
>
>
>
> The QMap Probe requires no regular maintenance or monitoring by you. It
> may occasionally need rebooting (turning off and on), and we would contact
> you via email or text to request this. The device sends various test
> packets to the internet and records their response characteristics. Our
> device has no knowledge of -- and does not communicate out -- any
> information about you or any devices in your home.
>
>
>
> We will include a prepaid shipping label for returning the QMap Probe in
> the original box (please keep this!). Once we receive the device back, we
> will send you a $200 Amazon gift card (one per household).
>
>
>
> To volunteer, please fill out this relatively painless survey:
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8VZSB3M
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.surveymonkey.com/r/8VZSB3M__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FrL2Yijo-63gS4PMToq0adfntj2fhza8ekyba1EbS8-tCgsQpg5MsIAYAvP5xUzLdDRa667bslUTtw_s0WpvvBpJEFJ_EHoUnA$>.
> Thank you!
>
>
>
> ///END///
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>


-- 
Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
Vint Cerf
Google, LLC
1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor
Reston, VA 20190
+1 (571) 213 1346


until further notice

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Re: [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA

[Eric]

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Jason,

(Replying on-list in case anyone else has the same question.)

Questionnaire #4:
Is the "port available on the router" a hard requirement, or is a port on a switch acceptable? My gateway router only has three ports, so one to WAN, other two to LAN switches (which connect to servers, workstations, WAPs and another switch). Would connecting the probe to a single-hop switch cause any issues?

Thanks,
Eric

------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2023 at 12:53, Livingood, Jason via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> Forwarding on from a group doing some Starlink research. I am aware of at least one other researcher that will soon do the same and will forward that later (guessing a week or two).
>
> Jason
>
> ///FORWARD///
>
> We need volunteers! NetForecast, a leader in measuring the quality of internet service, is conducting a performance study of several types of internet delivery technologies, including low-earth-orbit satellite like Starlink.
>
> As a volunteer, you will host one of our proprietary QMap Probes in your home network. This will connect to the internet via an available ethernet port on your gateway/router and plug into a standard power outlet. The QMap Probe is preconfigured to automatically test various network metrics with little burden on your available bandwidth. This data is used to estimate the quality of internet service. A public report of our findings will be published on our website in 2023. Please check out some of our existing reports to get a better feel of what we measure:[https://www.netforecast.com/audit-reports/](https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.netforecast.com/audit-reports/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FrL2Yijo-63gS4PMToq0adfntj2fhza8ekyba1EbS8-tCgsQpg5MsIAYAvP5xUzLdDRa667bslUTtw_s0WpvvBpJEFKpAJeQfQ$).
>
> The QMap Probe requires no regular maintenance or monitoring by you. It may occasionally need rebooting (turning off and on), and we would contact you via email or text to request this. The device sends various test packets to the internet and records their response characteristics. Our device has no knowledge of -- and does not communicate out -- any information about you or any devices in your home.
>
> We will include a prepaid shipping label for returning the QMap Probe in the original box (please keep this!). Once we receive the device back, we will send you a $200 Amazon gift card (one per household).
>
> To volunteer, please fill out this relatively painless survey:[https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8VZSB3M](https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.surveymonkey.com/r/8VZSB3M__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FrL2Yijo-63gS4PMToq0adfntj2fhza8ekyba1EbS8-tCgsQpg5MsIAYAvP5xUzLdDRa667bslUTtw_s0WpvvBpJEFJ_EHoUnA$). Thank you!
>
> ///END///

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Re: [Starlink] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA

[Livingood, Jason]

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Not sure – I would ask their lead researcher (mike.reynolds@netforecast.com<mailto:mike.reynolds@netforecast.com>), cc’d here. I wouldn’t think it was an issue but never know.

JL

From: Eric <evil.function@proton.me>
Date: Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 16:24
To: "Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com>
Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA

Jason,

(Replying on-list in case anyone else has the same question.)

Questionnaire #4:
Is the "port available on the router" a hard requirement, or is a port on a switch acceptable?  My gateway router only has three ports, so one to WAN, other two to LAN switches (which connect to servers, workstations, WAPs and another switch).  Would connecting the probe to a single-hop switch cause any issues?

Thanks,
Eric


------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2023 at 12:53, Livingood, Jason via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:


Forwarding on from a group doing some Starlink research. I am aware of at least one other researcher that will soon do the same and will forward that later (guessing a week or two).

Jason
///FORWARD///
We need volunteers! NetForecast, a leader in measuring the quality of internet service, is conducting a performance study of several types of internet delivery technologies, including low-earth-orbit satellite like Starlink.

As a volunteer, you will host one of our proprietary QMap Probes in your home network. This will connect to the internet via an available ethernet port on your gateway/router and plug into a standard power outlet. The QMap Probe is preconfigured to automatically test various network metrics with little burden on your available bandwidth. This data is used to estimate the quality of internet service. A public report of our findings will be published on our website in 2023. Please check out some of our existing reports to get a better feel of what we measure: https://www.netforecast.com/audit-reports/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.netforecast.com/audit-reports/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FrL2Yijo-63gS4PMToq0adfntj2fhza8ekyba1EbS8-tCgsQpg5MsIAYAvP5xUzLdDRa667bslUTtw_s0WpvvBpJEFKpAJeQfQ$>.

The QMap Probe requires no regular maintenance or monitoring by you. It may occasionally need rebooting (turning off and on), and we would contact you via email or text to request this. The device sends various test packets to the internet and records their response characteristics. Our device has no knowledge of -- and does not communicate out -- any information about you or any devices in your home.

We will include a prepaid shipping label for returning the QMap Probe in the original box (please keep this!). Once we receive the device back, we will send you a $200 Amazon gift card (one per household).

To volunteer, please fill out this relatively painless survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8VZSB3M<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.surveymonkey.com/r/8VZSB3M__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FrL2Yijo-63gS4PMToq0adfntj2fhza8ekyba1EbS8-tCgsQpg5MsIAYAvP5xUzLdDRa667bslUTtw_s0WpvvBpJEFJ_EHoUnA$>. Thank you!

///END///


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Re: [Starlink] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA

[Mike Reynolds]

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Port on a switch is perfectly fine. Sorry about the confusion.

-Mike

From: Livingood, Jason <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com>
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 9:35 AM
To: Eric <evil.function@proton.me>
Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>; Mike Reynolds <mike.reynolds@netforecast.com>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of NetForecast. Use caution when clicking links or opening attachments.
Not sure – I would ask their lead researcher (mike.reynolds@netforecast.com<mailto:mike.reynolds@netforecast.com>), cc’d here. I wouldn’t think it was an issue but never know.

JL

From: Eric <evil.function@proton.me<mailto:evil.function@proton.me>>
Date: Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 16:24
To: "Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com<mailto:Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com>>
Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA

Jason,

(Replying on-list in case anyone else has the same question.)

Questionnaire #4:
Is the "port available on the router" a hard requirement, or is a port on a switch acceptable?  My gateway router only has three ports, so one to WAN, other two to LAN switches (which connect to servers, workstations, WAPs and another switch).  Would connecting the probe to a single-hop switch cause any issues?

Thanks,
Eric


------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2023 at 12:53, Livingood, Jason via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote:

Forwarding on from a group doing some Starlink research. I am aware of at least one other researcher that will soon do the same and will forward that later (guessing a week or two).

Jason
///FORWARD///
We need volunteers! NetForecast, a leader in measuring the quality of internet service, is conducting a performance study of several types of internet delivery technologies, including low-earth-orbit satellite like Starlink.

As a volunteer, you will host one of our proprietary QMap Probes in your home network. This will connect to the internet via an available ethernet port on your gateway/router and plug into a standard power outlet. The QMap Probe is preconfigured to automatically test various network metrics with little burden on your available bandwidth. This data is used to estimate the quality of internet service. A public report of our findings will be published on our website in 2023. Please check out some of our existing reports to get a better feel of what we measure: https://www.netforecast.com/audit-reports/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.netforecast.com/audit-reports/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FrL2Yijo-63gS4PMToq0adfntj2fhza8ekyba1EbS8-tCgsQpg5MsIAYAvP5xUzLdDRa667bslUTtw_s0WpvvBpJEFKpAJeQfQ$>.

The QMap Probe requires no regular maintenance or monitoring by you. It may occasionally need rebooting (turning off and on), and we would contact you via email or text to request this. The device sends various test packets to the internet and records their response characteristics. Our device has no knowledge of -- and does not communicate out -- any information about you or any devices in your home.

We will include a prepaid shipping label for returning the QMap Probe in the original box (please keep this!). Once we receive the device back, we will send you a $200 Amazon gift card (one per household).

To volunteer, please fill out this relatively painless survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8VZSB3M<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.surveymonkey.com/r/8VZSB3M__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FrL2Yijo-63gS4PMToq0adfntj2fhza8ekyba1EbS8-tCgsQpg5MsIAYAvP5xUzLdDRa667bslUTtw_s0WpvvBpJEFJ_EHoUnA$>. Thank you!

///END///


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Re: [Starlink] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA

[Eric]

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Got it, thanks!

------- Original Message -------
On Monday, January 9th, 2023 at 06:38, Mike Reynolds <mike.reynolds@netforecast.com> wrote:

> Port on a switch is perfectly fine. Sorry about the confusion.
>
> -Mike
>
> From: Livingood, Jason <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 9:35 AM
> To: Eric <evil.function@proton.me>
> Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>; Mike Reynolds <mike.reynolds@netforecast.com>
> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of NetForecast. Use caution when clicking links or opening attachments.
>
> Not sure – I would ask their lead researcher (mike.reynolds@netforecast.com), cc’d here. I wouldn’t think it was an issue but never know.
>
> JL
>
> From: Eric <evil.function@proton.me>
> Date: Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 16:24
> To: "Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com>
> Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA
>
> Jason,
>
> (Replying on-list in case anyone else has the same question.)
>
> Questionnaire #4:
>
> Is the "port available on the router" a hard requirement, or is a port on a switch acceptable? My gateway router only has three ports, so one to WAN, other two to LAN switches (which connect to servers, workstations, WAPs and another switch). Would connecting the probe to a single-hop switch cause any issues?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric
>
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2023 at 12:53, Livingood, Jason via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>> Forwarding on from a group doing some Starlink research. I am aware of at least one other researcher that will soon do the same and will forward that later (guessing a week or two).
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> ///FORWARD///
>>
>> We need volunteers! NetForecast, a leader in measuring the quality of internet service, is conducting a performance study of several types of internet delivery technologies, including low-earth-orbit satellite like Starlink.
>>
>> As a volunteer, you will host one of our proprietary QMap Probes in your home network. This will connect to the internet via an available ethernet port on your gateway/router and plug into a standard power outlet. The QMap Probe is preconfigured to automatically test various network metrics with little burden on your available bandwidth. This data is used to estimate the quality of internet service. A public report of our findings will be published on our website in 2023. Please check out some of our existing reports to get a better feel of what we measure:[https://www.netforecast.com/audit-reports/](https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.netforecast.com/audit-reports/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FrL2Yijo-63gS4PMToq0adfntj2fhza8ekyba1EbS8-tCgsQpg5MsIAYAvP5xUzLdDRa667bslUTtw_s0WpvvBpJEFKpAJeQfQ$).
>>
>> The QMap Probe requires no regular maintenance or monitoring by you. It may occasionally need rebooting (turning off and on), and we would contact you via email or text to request this. The device sends various test packets to the internet and records their response characteristics. Our device has no knowledge of -- and does not communicate out -- any information about you or any devices in your home.
>>
>> We will include a prepaid shipping label for returning the QMap Probe in the original box (please keep this!). Once we receive the device back, we will send you a $200 Amazon gift card (one per household).
>>
>> To volunteer, please fill out this relatively painless survey:[https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8VZSB3M](https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.surveymonkey.com/r/8VZSB3M__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FrL2Yijo-63gS4PMToq0adfntj2fhza8ekyba1EbS8-tCgsQpg5MsIAYAvP5xUzLdDRa667bslUTtw_s0WpvvBpJEFJ_EHoUnA$). Thank you!
>>
>> ///END///

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Re: [Starlink] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA

[Dave Taht]

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 10:54 AM Livingood, Jason
<Jason_Livingood@comcast.com> wrote:
>
> > 0) None of the tests last long enough.
>
> The user-initiated ones tend to be shorter - likely because the average user does not want to wait several minutes for a test to complete. But IMO this is where a test platform like SamKnows, Ookla's embedded client, NetMicroscope, and others can come in - since they run in the background on some randomized schedule w/o user intervention. Thus, the user's time-sensitivity is no longer a factor and a longer duration test can be performed.

I would be so happy if someone independent ( and not necessarily me!)
was validating those more private tests, and retaining reference
packet captures of the various behaviors observed.

Bloat is just one problem among many, that shows up on a speedtest. I
have, for example, been working for months, on a very difficult
problem occurring on at least one wifi6 chipset... where the block-ack
window is being violated, leading to a ton of jitter under certain
loads, and a bandwidth reduction, that doesn't show up in summary
data.

Samknows published a really good blog recently,
here: https://samknows.com/blog/testing-principles

about how they are going about things... however...

>
> > 1) Not testing up + down + ping at the same time
>
> You should consider publishing a LUL BCP I-D in the IRTF/IETF - like in IPPM...

I have cc'd ippm a few times on these threads, and am on that mailing
list. It's pretty moribund compared to around here.

I am primarily interested in correct code (be it from a specification,
or not), and in looking at packet captures, to validate that it is
doing what it says on the tin, and moreover getting more stuff on
those tin, that I already know, should be tested for.

I agree that someday trying to nail down what latency under load
means, would be good to do. I'd settle at the moment, for single flow
simultaneous, tcp up, down, ping, and within stream latencies... all
plotted on the same chart.

> JL
>


-- 
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC

Re: [Starlink] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA

[Livingood, Jason]

> 0) None of the tests last long enough.

The user-initiated ones tend to be shorter - likely because the average user does not want to wait several minutes for a test to complete. But IMO this is where a test platform like SamKnows, Ookla's embedded client, NetMicroscope, and others can come in - since they run in the background on some randomized schedule w/o user intervention. Thus, the user's time-sensitivity is no longer a factor and a longer duration test can be performed.

> 1) Not testing up + down + ping at the same time

You should consider publishing a LUL BCP I-D in the IRTF/IETF - like in IPPM...

JL