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From: Dave Collier-Brown <dave.collier-Brown@indexexchange.com>
To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Bloat] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2023 08:27:24 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <a2857ec4-a6ea-e9eb-cf99-17ef7ea08ef2@indexexchange.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <08526EAC-7EA3-4BFA-A231-B2935E09C8AC@gmx.de>


On 3/29/23 04:28, Sebastian Moeller via Starlink wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
>
>> On Mar 28, 2023, at 19:47, rjmcmahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com> wrote:
>>
>> Interesting. I'm skeptical that our cities in the U.S. can get this (structural separation) right.
> There really isn't that much to get wrong, you built the access network and terminate the per household fibers in arge enough "exchanges" there you offer ISPs to lighten up the fibers on the premise that customers can use any ISP they want (that is present in the exchange)... and on ISP change will just be patched differently in the exchange.
> While I think that local "government" also could successfully run internet access services, I see no reason why they should do so (unless there is no competition).
> The goal here is to move the "natural monopoly" of the access network out of the hand of the "market" (as markets simply fail as optimizing resource allocation instruments under mono- and oligopoly conditions, on either side).

We see  the same issue in Canada: some provinces and cities happily
manage the delivery of services over cables hung from province-owned
poles (eg, TCP/IP in New Brunswick).  Other provinces did less well, and
we have "telephone poles" and "hydro poles" on the same street (in
Toronto, Ontario)

There is no real difference between New Brunswick, Ontario or, for that
matter, Minnesota. If a province or city has operated natural monopolies
like the last mile for water and sewer, it can operate the last mile for
any other monopoly.

--dave

--
David Collier-Brown,         | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com |              -- Mark Twain


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  reply	other threads:[~2023-03-29 12:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 169+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <mailman.2651.1672779463.1281.starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
2023-01-03 22:58 ` [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA David P. Reed
2023-01-09 14:44   ` Livingood, Jason
2023-01-09 15:26     ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 17:00       ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-09 17:04       ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Jeremy Austin
2023-01-09 18:33         ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 19:06           ` David Collier-Brown
2023-01-09 18:54       ` [Starlink] [EXTERNAL] " Livingood, Jason
2023-01-09 19:19         ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:56           ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-01-09 21:00             ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 10:02             ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 15:08               ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 15:50                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:06                   ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:19                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:12                   ` [Starlink] " dan
2023-03-13 16:36                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 17:26                       ` dan
2023-03-13 17:37                         ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 18:34                           ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:14                         ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:42                           ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 18:51                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 19:32                               ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 20:00                                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:28                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14  4:27                                     ` [Starlink] On FiWi rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 11:10                                       ` Mike Puchol
2023-03-14 16:54                                         ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:06                                           ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:11                                             ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-14 17:35                                               ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:54                                                 ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-14 18:14                                                   ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 19:18                                                     ` dan
2023-03-14 19:30                                                       ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-14 20:06                                                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 19:30                                                       ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 23:30                                                         ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-15  0:11                                                           ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-15  5:20                                                             ` Bruce Perens
     [not found]                                                               ` <CALQXh-PUgix7ApkTi5W8TMKVZfE4fyNk4WeiocZ6QU6R-m7naA@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-15 17:05                                                                 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 17:44                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 19:22                                                                   ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " David Lang
2023-03-15 17:32                                                               ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:42                                                                 ` dan
2023-03-15 18:03                                                                   ` Mike Puchol
2023-03-15 19:33                                                                   ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " David Lang
2023-03-15 19:39                                                                     ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-15 21:52                                                                       ` David Lang
2023-03-15 22:04                                                                         ` Dave Taht
2023-03-15 22:08                                                                           ` dan
2023-03-15 17:43                                                                 ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] [Rpm] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-15 17:49                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:53                                                                     ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-15 17:59                                                                       ` dan
2023-03-15 19:39                                                                       ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 16:38                                         ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " Dave Taht
2023-03-17 18:21                                           ` Mike Puchol
2023-03-17 19:01                                           ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-17 19:19                                             ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 20:37                                               ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-17 20:57                                                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 22:50                                                   ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-18 18:18                                                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-18 19:57                                                       ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-18 20:40                                                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-19 10:26                                                           ` Michael Richardson
2023-03-19 21:00                                                             ` [Starlink] On metrics rjmcmahon
2023-03-20  0:26                                                               ` dan
2023-03-20  3:03                                                                 ` David Lang
     [not found]                                                             ` <CAJUtOOgC8O2jvT7eZ0O8nU8kCPOeCgVPTBNKaA3ZqLpJf4obJw@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-20 21:28                                                               ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] On FiWi dan
     [not found]                                                                 ` <CAJUtOOhPsiC=9SM3rUUxWuh4euLbDxVqcrM6hioDykZaWYfy6Q@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-20 22:02                                                                   ` [Starlink] On FiWi power envelope rjmcmahon
2023-03-20 23:47                                                                     ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-21  0:10                                                                 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
     [not found]                                                                   ` <CAJUtOOhinMu4Mv9EW-PB7ef9EHWL3inpeABUqFt0UDAw47MixA@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-21 11:26                                                                     ` [Starlink] Annoyed at 5/1 Mbps Rich Brown
2023-03-21 12:29                                                                     ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
2023-03-21 12:30                                                                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-21 17:42                                                                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 18:08                                                                       ` rjmcmahon
     [not found]                                                                         ` <CAJUtOOiMk+PBK2ZRFsZA8EFEgqfHY3Zpw9=kAkJZpePx9OzeMw@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-21 19:58                                                                           ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 20:06                                                                             ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " David Lang
2023-03-25 19:39                                                                             ` [Starlink] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:09                                                                               ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 20:47                                                                                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:15                                                                               ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-25 20:43                                                                                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 21:08                                                                                   ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 22:04                                                                                     ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:50                                                                                       ` dan
2023-03-25 23:21                                                                                         ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:35                                                                                           ` David Lang
2023-03-26  0:04                                                                                             ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26  0:07                                                                                               ` Nathan Owens
2023-03-26  0:50                                                                                                 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26  8:45                                                                                                 ` Livingood, Jason
2023-03-26 18:54                                                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26  0:28                                                                                               ` David Lang
2023-03-26  0:57                                                                                                 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:57                                                                                       ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 23:33                                                                                         ` David Lang
2023-03-25 23:38                                                                                         ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:20                                                                                       ` David Lang
2023-03-26 18:29                                                                                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 10:34                                                                                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-26 18:12                                                                                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 20:57                                                                                     ` David Lang
2023-03-26 21:11                                                                                       ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-26 21:26                                                                                         ` David Lang
2023-03-28 17:06                                                                                         ` Larry Press
2023-03-28 17:47                                                                                           ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 18:11                                                                                             ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-28 18:46                                                                                               ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 20:37                                                                                                 ` David Lang
2023-03-28 21:31                                                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 22:18                                                                                                     ` dan
2023-03-28 22:42                                                                                                       ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-29  8:28                                                                                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 12:27                                                                                               ` Dave Collier-Brown [this message]
2023-03-29 13:22                                                                                                 ` Doc Searls
2023-03-29 13:40                                                                                                   ` [Starlink] Enabling a production model Dave Taht
2023-03-29 14:54                                                                                                     ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-29 16:53                                                                                                       ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-29 18:33                                                                                                         ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 17:13                                                                                                       ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " David Lang
2023-03-29 17:34                                                                                                         ` dan
2023-03-29 20:03                                                                                                           ` David Lang
2023-04-02 12:00                                                                                                           ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 17:46                                                                                                         ` Rich Brown
2023-03-29 19:02                                                                                                           ` tom
2023-03-29 19:08                                                                                                             ` Dave Taht
2023-03-29 19:31                                                                                                               ` tom
2023-03-29 19:11                                                                                                           ` Dave Collier-Brown
2023-04-02 11:39                                                                                                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 13:46                                                                                               ` [Starlink] [Bloat] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-29 14:57                                                                                                 ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-29 19:23                                                                                                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 19:02                                                                                               ` [Starlink] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-29 19:37                                                                                                 ` dan
2023-03-25 20:27                                                                               ` [Starlink] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 23:15                                             ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [Rpm] On FiWi David Lang
2023-03-14 18:05                                       ` [Starlink] " Steve Stroh
2023-03-13 19:33                           ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA dan
2023-03-13 19:52                             ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 21:00                               ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:27                                 ` dan
2023-03-14  9:11                                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:45                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:02                               ` [Starlink] When do you drop? Always! Dave Taht
2023-03-13 21:42                                 ` Ulrich Speidel
2023-03-13 16:04                 ` [Starlink] UnderBloat on fiber and wisps Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:09                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:35                     ` Mike Puchol
2023-01-09 20:49         ` [Starlink] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA Dave Taht
2023-01-09 19:13       ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:47         ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-11 18:32           ` Rodney W. Grimes
2023-01-11 20:01             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-11 20:09             ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-12  8:14               ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-12 17:49                 ` Robert McMahon
2023-01-09 20:20         ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 20:46           ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 20:59             ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 21:06               ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 21:18                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-10 17:36         ` David P. Reed
2023-03-27  8:45 [Starlink] [Bloat] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat David Fernández

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