From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from AUS01-ME3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-me3aus01on2165.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.108.165]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33BFF3CB40 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2024 09:53:38 -0500 (EST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=LkY78lVWMPlG9KxYLaxMgQ+bg/UOCWV2Axd5vvvyllS/2CIyQsbJUYg3lUfDgQFIf0cvbf0uYadYWUvEa0tsaiLcFoqIR9cW9FOOkhv3+YrWHDyp/Ql7ENnvewPjEKxmzzkK0L/x0elfB/COuAakYx7jSwOwiuerZrEkpJeulxEK5sJDYm3KDjFfoOxV/cMwM4ovMOxTpmeJNKkWTpvAJdl60D8Wttt0Y/MfeLl+534kWMvOMWNE1Jl26W/87hgYJrzic4HcrYRxWa68mp5/SgqTWeFGmcxdbsWHS/SKfWTEThsAhfkpG90bZvfl4w5jgPReyOqKuD5uj9hqvRxYWQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=vpa4p6JlE1grXAe7PncKycZBov3Ll1PKOzS1o6+Jm6g=; b=XQOQvEoshE3mUUpOdT8zu7w7BsNQe3YBdPZiIL/ZG1V0s0tPSNugakBmD6MkNH/41l4KDJR3j0sUzR7bYG7fLxKMW0O4COS3y0z90Gx/7Bc2AVMONx20Id+WKe4jZXjSTnKzCqK7l7EEgBBxcOBDjC+v9WgvuugY2KYHI9PuNXPN7yVevnAVFc0KcddcynFxzLo9c8/rr8BlPHdNHAZfVQdBls3bSvvlw9u66iyYUBQXaVjWhDJr6d50olRJiAXD79K5QYwWyhBzuzmskHWyqCMgb4Q/xFSg11JDHqHJYYKeXK+whJAJD2eCxyDsPDFnsq3OjnX5Zz5ExdVM4QodqA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=auckland.ac.nz; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=auckland.ac.nz; dkim=pass header.d=auckland.ac.nz; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=auckland.ac.nz; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=vpa4p6JlE1grXAe7PncKycZBov3Ll1PKOzS1o6+Jm6g=; b=NnMz9WkkKcmGEYFJIpWzgS4P4zr9BFbZjOYXWUqJZgLO7boJ++6BzLwUZ6oDsX2oe2Sw2sJbp6giJ/23cObDJWi/IhPjrJtDUlnj/qb8FS4nvMeqOEEVtm+nqxq/dSpKp6DCMOLq5ER5UrqddE7snSFtl4P5775fj/GatO1OAwo= Authentication-Results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=auckland.ac.nz; Received: from SY7P300MB0538.AUSP300.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10c6:10:28d::22) by SY3PPFED689F3AA.AUSP300.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10c6:18::4b5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.8207.13; Thu, 28 Nov 2024 14:53:19 +0000 Received: from SY7P300MB0538.AUSP300.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::a5a8:6b50:caf3:e7b5]) by SY7P300MB0538.AUSP300.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::a5a8:6b50:caf3:e7b5%4]) with mapi id 15.20.8207.010; Thu, 28 Nov 2024 14:53:18 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2024 03:53:04 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net References: Content-Language: en-US From: Ulrich Speidel In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ClientProxiedBy: TYCP301CA0074.JPNP301.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:1096:405:7d::14) To SY7P300MB0538.AUSP300.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10c6:10:28d::22) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: SY7P300MB0538:EE_|SY3PPFED689F3AA:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: b56a9fbb-0f40-4968-688e-08dd0fbc6517 X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|366016|1800799024|376014; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: =?utf-8?B?UDVkYndCVWZzNXlKWlRmWUQrNXJNTGFDN01xN00vWC93L2ppWGkydXNuR0V2?= =?utf-8?B?cEQxK25FdTJXNXRnTUJBTHdqUXFCN2xUeStUMjdYd1lpeXFNOGgxVU9rMisw?= =?utf-8?B?YldxcGxHRUEyd3FrejZEdVdERldvVG10c09iV1NTTE14MjFyUnVzRWljSU1w?= =?utf-8?B?RTdxR0FlVHN4NHp1dUFPN2dnSUw5cDV5N281QmpYNG9ZM2dVbjRvMUFvd21N?= =?utf-8?B?cUUyM1FDTmZzMWVaaHROb3BXaGVPdWJxdTU4TnRzMGp2OHY4Q2MwZG5GVjE4?= =?utf-8?B?SHUyWm9EbnRSWG5YQjdaQmpUdWJ4UC9TZ3NiNnNYRnB1WUFqWWNoOUFjdEFy?= =?utf-8?B?Z05FSUZjeDJYdHA5REdSMmNxS2pubEJlaFN6TjlYRnpjR3A3dExQR2VZQkIw?= =?utf-8?B?Rkp6bFpwZkxmUE1qSU5acFlLNmkrbFdGdjhYVzdpbnduNFBsVDZWcE1DSSsy?= =?utf-8?B?RWUwYTFOTHF3MTd1WnhjOWxMK0dPbnRnYyt5WlhKdVZscUpFTXNaVlIramlv?= =?utf-8?B?RHlRM2JGNDdvVVVacFVuMmlFazVtZnYrT215Wm1BYnJicHFiNWpFbmZDSGJ4?= =?utf-8?B?MXFESHdYSDVMeElyOEZxQVFZVkQ5SEtQRFRXRHNYenRMTUxwSXZOM0xCeVdu?= =?utf-8?B?OWlyOE45Q090eEpJMktTazRJbk01TG9nUHhGcHk4NnJjNVBNODRLL2x1MWpk?= =?utf-8?B?WU1kUVo4dlBHLzJKeEJ0SHhkdGVSclFmRFliSjB2V0FKeHRtdXFWdE44elFE?= =?utf-8?B?aWhpZThheTVnaVJTUW9HSldpcDg2REpmWWs2d042SkVMWjUreVVXek5NL0ZY?= =?utf-8?B?RFo4dG13K2wwT25tQUt3dTUrWEU4QlQzS0Z4d0RyWjkxemU4aDVhNFU1TzZ0?= =?utf-8?B?SjJnSFpZVmNtSXh5VVJ6WXpBdWYrajg3b2QvbkhtajZYWEN4VENxR0ZKNVh2?= =?utf-8?B?aElvd2U0c09GRTlHMkRVdEIxcWtxQjlwc3VmOFF1bkRoa1R5Z042QUN2dlRV?= =?utf-8?B?RHJpdFlFajRwcDNKd2hWdGVoejY4b1RvMkFUdWdGSnRBcTlBRFJFdEx4OFVp?= =?utf-8?B?eGd5Vk0zeFlEak9JZ0xoRi8xL2pkc1VxdElGM3FBQURxOFZXV2tvZURHZzNr?= =?utf-8?B?TlBZanlRMmpoektFSjJ4M3hoU21JTWJqK3FhUFFpTTFKU0t4MGtYalJrdkZQ?= =?utf-8?B?V2JJOVhsUjJOdTdWRkdnajdpa3BwcURqTU85eUtOblpxRTRKclFTVm54dmgy?= =?utf-8?B?SFhQVEgyV1JZeGd5NTVybldRWHhEWERSZEt5WUtiUklJdk82VDBTZjVGUjJP?= =?utf-8?B?TmFSTndpdVpZemFxS2xrdHVudk9KZFFIeXprUTlSaEEzT0s2VVdHNG5XaVh4?= =?utf-8?B?TXd2Um5lZytpaE9pWWlNdmpsc3BqSDZ2dkZIUWFkazhxN1BxZVB0RWpTM2ZT?= =?utf-8?B?UzRGTlZrRUs5elpoZ0EwRUhNWFhMZ0NLcjlUNWhVZDNPMUtyeGxrNXRpNEIx?= =?utf-8?B?TUtlMXdNMkhVVGtjMVVPTmdFbDlvUzhzZEtCRWg3cFM3YWI1dWkrZWVlVCsx?= =?utf-8?B?NVA4SnNaQkpFbk9hOGVBYkJIM2hONEZsbWtsQUQxaE4zY2IyY3ZXY29DOTlO?= =?utf-8?B?bmluTVV5WFRFT0dySiszNmVtRWpGQm94eXdsekFTUzMxNVJJS0gybnBUZ0p1?= =?utf-8?B?elV2QXAxclNjSnVQZXpCVWMvTmJZdTg5NjJnMFFGVDdSKzJ1dW9KRVljeFRS?= =?utf-8?Q?WEGpgybuvbC7Iz5mLU=3D?= X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SY7P300MB0538.AUSP300.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230040)(366016)(1800799024)(376014); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?utf-8?B?eTR3ak44dXE4eHVhQVRqUkcvOE9PeW1Kc2NKRTFWNUYvNWorS3ZaYnFZSkU1?= =?utf-8?B?Z3RkeDFlcTBZeC9jeC9nU2dEeC9OcUQ4ZUF5Z0NIcjFQZzZJY00raFRXNHI4?= =?utf-8?B?dmtJa2cyTEE3bXhBZGVkMk1IUTZJT1hkcllkRVd6M0ZicGdwSTVaT3MrZkJV?= =?utf-8?B?MWh0aGhvVnRKdW5PcG9kdStuUGJuWW1sS2IzNk9zbjZIMkE3dnhuZzhDUmlh?= =?utf-8?B?djFueGZ3Qys0SFpnUHl0MmpPa29scXVsVm5kTDd6UWpOYzhzN0Y3cHRhSzE5?= =?utf-8?B?azRxYUhzMUVwS0V1MDNZeUNyb3M3M3lNTHZMSEc3d2lONzlTVzFLSHhuRUZ6?= =?utf-8?B?Um4vK25zZEFjazV6TGZteXd3d3FoM1FobDliQWNmS3Zwb3lLNGJLcFBZeVRl?= =?utf-8?B?Q1FLL3BUaE51dEdvMVIwYmdpalBuczB1bnliOFhJWHEza1ViZjl5b0ZrZHNC?= =?utf-8?B?YmdyZnZpSVpUSGhlUExaQWhLZ1BRRHN2bHJjSjd4dTQ1WExXZjV1SXRDL0Y1?= =?utf-8?B?NFhhcHFaMTJ2ZEgxU3BxQlVMR3NpVThtQnJQT3FxWmZoeXU5SDdtZjdkeGRJ?= =?utf-8?B?b3VUbzF2T3N4amZWRHhaT2NSR29Za0JRUjZwU2lUNHFiKzd4aGxuT2kyd3lI?= =?utf-8?B?NXNOc09wOUN4N0lkaVJsNUVSV1BseVBlOXJsRFVqSmlrRkVDVFpSS3lOeUJv?= =?utf-8?B?amg3KzQ0a0NvR3UwQ0F4akw1L3RYdWxxTGY3ZE93bTB1ZllmQ0RHME1LY0cz?= =?utf-8?B?QVhBOUxrZmpoNlQ3ZmtSM3E1ME1MZkdyb3F0S2hGZ2Z3QmN5aHE0OHMrZ1lI?= =?utf-8?B?b3VkOFMxT2NlckZPaVNDT0w4R0REMi9ITk5WdjNVTkw5bzBrdFdyRHdQaE00?= =?utf-8?B?M0dPeERNdHNEU1Yzd2h1VE1xb3JtaVRkbk5tSmlDNm5qaXNENGRDUzM4UTBw?= =?utf-8?B?TTdPYUJkL2RjSjlTcGdFY0FqS0pUUjRHREtUZUsyeExsUGVyY1MwZ3NzUEZB?= =?utf-8?B?bkxZcHdtcFE3aUVZY0FFWXo1WWRtRjZtRWVZQTlOZ1YydDU2UDlQNGZCM0da?= =?utf-8?B?aDZRZUp3M2Z4TFNxcmZWUmdTMW9qc0MrOEhiemttRkR2Mm5NdVYvN08vVWx5?= =?utf-8?B?cGJvT21UeFJYeVVKRTMxejdsSm5SaDBXL0owNDhYaUZ4c0wrdmtBSmcvUG1B?= =?utf-8?B?aDJqMkF1R3dyelI2TlJuS1JmS2MrcUF5YXRyam1Cb3d4NE9KTEM2VktRMUpT?= =?utf-8?B?bG1LUzMzQzVCZnhQUUhFc0xqbUxiOEVHcW1hRlo1bGdkQjJRNW5kNHNYelJ2?= =?utf-8?B?d2NFRmtqbjQxMy9DZUUyeTZaMXBtWnU0ZjNpaFl1NTZzRTBsUGR6N1pnREZ2?= =?utf-8?B?b2RFMS9YUmhWamtpT00xV3pnZDZneGUzdHRUNVRCb0Yvak9HZmViam42YkJT?= =?utf-8?B?Z1Z3R1RCN3grU3d2ZWN3cWxIRmZyOU15K0VsUmVIYjhwWHJVbHRObUdHNEdB?= =?utf-8?B?Qmp6STBQWm91Rk1wMlVxc3pWQVlMUE8zTzg4akdKbHdFZllmNWtHK3VHeWsw?= =?utf-8?B?allHVWcyVnMrMzBNeVRmTE1hdXIzbWppdlZVR0tHQm9LbmpiUDZoWG5JaThV?= =?utf-8?B?M3RrRncvWmd4UzIxaXYxU1JCQnduOE1rc0VBbkhFZHgvb0l5ckJrdU8renFm?= =?utf-8?B?blJzdHV0SWtvNFYzZnBJSjVUWGdBaUw3V29NdEo2V1FsTGgxTlMvOEs1NGNH?= =?utf-8?B?aWV1bGxNZ2pZcFlweENlUkVpVXdVdENiVlJaNjJ4engxM3ArR3dxNmdmUVdt?= =?utf-8?B?d3pDRDZsNXFnOG9yYWhBOElnQldoNkxrVVF1dVRMY29OTFFVZ1ROTnVTV0kx?= =?utf-8?B?WXZ5ZW5iZHcvSTBHN2ZGaXVVMk4rTEY5d25ZbThoTGxZei9aQVNScnNXSEFK?= =?utf-8?B?RTRpRzF6aVlSNFR1djhNbHdTRXBDQldXQjNwdWxNSnRrTUU1OUQrbjZvbDky?= =?utf-8?B?LzlxTkYvY0JmTFEvTE8vaUFCbEtFTzlnYkZiQytnL0ZEbkJNN0oyWEZpYXVp?= =?utf-8?B?UkIyWkNwTE5LYmR2TFMxV3MzZEI1SGRmVXkwc3RyeXh4dHBRWExKUGpWVTJx?= =?utf-8?B?SGlkeFBaV2gvQ295RnloQ2VBNnRJelBXQTlaK1pJSm9UaVRLU2UrajI1ek9n?= =?utf-8?B?M0E9PQ==?= X-OriginatorOrg: auckland.ac.nz X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b56a9fbb-0f40-4968-688e-08dd0fbc6517 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SY7P300MB0538.AUSP300.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Nov 2024 14:53:18.3059 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: d1b36e95-0d50-42e9-958f-b63fa906beaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: JxgOm32ApO+bLSU2oIl5UUGA2Gl0w704REckvzQZRaQSxegtbfBAPLliAdG6Bb0YE50A44YfNSN7vfrtA0IcBQPLjaskuFMJzuECCrQ4STQ= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SY3PPFED689F3AA Subject: Re: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print of Satellites Network X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2024 14:53:38 -0000 Ah yes. About 10 years ago, we tried to lower our carbon footprint a little by joining my local powerline company's pilot solar project. The deal: A small amount upfront, then a monthly fixed-price lease for a 12.5 year contract, and we get a 5 kWp solar array, inverter, and battery. We own all the power it produces - they get the benefit of us helping them with their peak load shedding (we've got a lot of infill housing, making life harder for those poor feeder cables from the 1960's). The whole system is supplied by a US company and controlled via an AWS server. The first year was an odyssee: The system wouldn't supply us in the morning, instead charging the battery to the brim, just to do an emergency power dump into the grid during the afternoon, now draining the battery so we had to bring in power again at night. Why? The control software didn't turn the inverter on until power usage in the house exceeded 800W, so it could avoid inefficient conversion. Our base load was 500W. Well, eventually I convinced them that an inverter running at only 85% efficiency was still going to let me use more of my own electrons than one that was hardly running at all, and the problem was fixed by giving me a custom schedule. And I'd tried to be smart to trim my house down to minimal power use before we got the solar... Fast forward May this year. Web UI starts showing strange system behaviour. Being a cranky customer, the support engineer at the lines company knows to take my complaints seriously and resets our system. Problem continues. He asks for patience. Then he indicates that an announcement is forthcoming. They've lost contact with the company in the US and nobody is processing support tickets there. Turns out the company went broke and fired all its staff. Our lines company have 200 units in town like ours. They're now unsupported and, for safety reasons, need to be turned off. A long wait for a solution commences. They're working with the receiver and other customers to see what can be salvaged. To no avail. So they've pulled out, to their credit quite graciously. We get to keep the panels (ours were swapped against new and slightly more powerful ones the other year under warranty), they take battery and inverter, never to be seen again, and pay us a few hundred bucks for early termination. I get to build my own system - yay! What it shows is that building systems for a 10+ year lifespan isn't trivial when they rely on large software components that need to be maintained, patched, bloats and ages. I mean, who doesn't love a smart home? But a lot of today's smart homes will be tomorrow's homes with the technical equivalent of dementia. On 29/11/2024 1:58 am, David Lang via Starlink wrote: > David Fernández wrote: > >> Considering that most of the CO2 is emitted during a device fabrication >> (e.g. 79% for laptops, according to Atos), making them last long and >> being >> modular and repairable may be the best way to reduce the carbon >> footprint >> (and the increasing amount of e-waste). > > We are at the stage now where a very significant limitation on the > lifetime of electronics is the supported lifetime of the software. For > most phones/tablets this is only 3 years (less if you don't buy them > as soon as they come out) > > David Lang > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink -- **************************************************************** Dr. Ulrich Speidel School of Computer Science Room 303S.594 (City Campus) The University of Auckland u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ ****************************************************************