From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from vsmx001.dclux.xion.oxcs.net (vsmx001.dclux.xion.oxcs.net [185.74.65.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CFEE3B29D for ; Fri, 6 May 2022 05:18:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from proxy-2.proxy.oxio.ns.xion.oxcs.net (proxy-2.proxy.oxio.ns.xion.oxcs.net [57.190.1.1]) by mx-out.dclux.xion.oxcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2E5ED8C031B; Fri, 6 May 2022 09:17:49 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dclux.xion.oxcs.net; s=mail1; t=1651828682; bh=SQAtg/lfWbZkRUkf9rbO24BGAUgSAezglVw+E9j+lzM=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=uAUjtCd0WCOxlGS4q6Y0Mz4cCDk73Y7xoUv2p43OKo6TtJVIpeaUEEYiPqWWZBVXj mjf68dQiFRqeD3/cz6YdcAdFUd2l+K25B+5O43CPAsod6OYqXmLj7Dqksanf9cSm7l okiUiCbDZEThiSO0aTiDZwCBZ/KhSoSF6zXlJwAkDRfUqWqIkWo+Q5hFK9IMcr82/V ih6Oo3fww3kVEcB5smGp/bYn90J8YYTrpPhMmmXSmeR1vd+D43N+EVXG6N8FjURtdz ArjYYt6+s/qZAZza+Mh3oQjjt6RvQ0De+PfwTj8v8D1V1nyj/Twk5EanhJ7CSlvV5b B648QVdD3NnVQ== Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 13:17:23 +0400 From: Mike Puchol To: Dave Taht Cc: David Lang , Ulrich Speidel , Larry Press , "=?utf-8?Q?starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net?=" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <77f03647-c1af-00c3-21b6-19fc62a81e44@auckland.ac.nz> <6p4934rq-30ns-9486-5srs-o45r7rornor9@ynat.uz> <0cacac1a-993f-48dd-b213-4b10b5ac1428@Spark> X-Readdle-Message-ID: aac25ff6-a441-4588-82e1-5348b89f4246@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="6274e7ab_3f2dba31_431d" X-VadeSecure-Status: LEGIT X-VADE-STATUS: LEGIT Subject: Re: [Starlink] Portability Now Available (fwd) X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 09:18:03 -0000 --6274e7ab_3f2dba31_431d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline To your specific question, I was not running traffic during this test, bu= t I have in a previous one, and I can say that up to 100Mbps in downlink = the data rate is stable, above that you start seeing bursts and buffering= . Will post more results after the weekend (flying back to Barcelona righ= t now). I do various things with this setup: =E2=80=A2 I read the gRPC as fast as I can. Some items on it update quite= fast, such as POP latency, others such as throughput once per second. =E2=80=A2 I read power usage at about 4-5 Hz =E2=80=A2 I read GPS at 1 Hz (also used for PPS sync) =E2=80=A2 I can optionally run iPerf3 tests in either uplink, downlink, o= r both, with various target tput (using TCP for now, will add UDP) =E2=80=A2 The data is stored on a local SQLite DB, and if there is a link= , also gets sent to a logging server which is sat at the POP (literally, = it=E2=80=99s in MAD, sub-millisecond away), so no delay from extra hops o= nce out of the POP. =E2=80=A2 All data sent to the server contains whatever is being read, pl= us the microsecond timestamp of the client, and a UUID that ties all read= ings to a particular logging run. =E2=80=A2 The logging server adds its own microsecond timestamp to every = record when received, so I can measure time delay between client packets,= but also inter-packet delay between logger box and server. I had to patch iPerf3 to add a =E2=80=94custom-uuid flag, to replace the = random generated one, so I can match iperf tests to all the other data so= urces by a common uuid. I have written some code to time-align the various data streams at differ= ent rates, but still working on visualization layer. Best, Mike On May 6, 2022, 07:12 +0400, Dave Taht , wrote: > What are you using to drive the pop latency test=3F > > (i was using irtt client -i3ms -d1h fremont.starlink.taht.net) > > Is it a test of pure idle latency or do the spikes at (for example) > t+12m42s represent simultaneous traffic=3F > > Is the peak of the graph there the actual peak, or not autoscaling to > the actual peak=3F > > On Thu, May 5, 2022 at 7:42 PM Mike Puchol wrote: > > > > I did a one hour drive test combined with a data logger (calling it L= eoBox for now), posted it compressed into 15=E2=80=99 > > > > https://youtu.be/UExU-=5FVHWjA > > > > Best, > > > > Mike > > On May 6, 2022, 03:46 +0400, Larry Press , wrote:= > > > > > In a week or two I'm going to take my dish out and drive around for= a few hours > > > > Roaming in motion works -- see the updates at the end of this post: > > https://circleid.com/posts/20220225-spacex-is-testing-starlink-roamin= g > > But it's not yet officially supported. > > > > Elon Musk says it's working in Ukraine. > > > > Stationary roaming, portability, is now officially offered at extra c= ost and with some constraints: > > https://support.starlink.com/=3Ftopic=3D1426e78a-7384-0334-3fc0-ddf5a= 76d7afe > > > > Larry > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > =46rom: Starlink on behalf= of David Lang > > Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2022 2:21 AM > > To: Ulrich Speidel > > Cc: starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net > > Subject: Re: =5BStarlink=5D Portability Now Available (fwd) > > > > remember that starlink is getting coverage from many satellites as th= ey come > > over, it's not like geostationary satellites that can aim specific an= tennas at > > specific locations (i.e. 'spotbeams' are not a thing) > > > > > > (just received the inverter I ordered, now to convert the plugs...) > > > > I expect the waitlist is a combination of two things. > > > > 1. the number of subscribers already in the area > > 2. supply availability (I expect this is why Ukraine is a waitlist, t= hey have > > supplied dishes to the government, but if you try to order one yourse= lf, you > > would have to wait) > > > > David Lang > > > > On Thu, 5 May 2022, Ulrich Speidel wrote: > > > > > Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 19:40:01 +1200 > > > =46rom: Ulrich Speidel > > > To: starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net > > > Subject: Re: =5BStarlink=5D Portability Now Available (fwd) > > > > > > Cool. Very interesting=21 That's one pile of information all of a s= udden. They > > > could do that more often IMHO. > > > > > > Nothing like official confirmation that the tropics are an almost > > > Starlink-free zone, and that places reasonably away from the 53rd p= arallels > > > are secondary service zones. They forgot their 50-odd terminals in = Tonga (I > > > heard yesterday about someone in the northern islands who brought a= dishy > > > from overseas and found it didn't work... obviously believed the he= adlines... > > > sigh). > > > > > > Also interesting that there seems to be, finally, some sort of disc= losure on > > > cell size. Someone will need to explain to me why there are waitlis= t areas in > > > the Auckland area surrounded by full service. The areas concerned a= re rural, > > > which you'd think they'd want to service with priority over our > > > well-connected CBD... Too many subscribers there already, or not en= ough to > > > warrant a spot beam=3F Similar soft spots near Sydney, holes in =46= oveaux Strait, > > > the Hauraki Gulf, southeast of Murray Bridge in South Australia, so= uthern > > > Chile, ... What do I read into this=3F Two-fold: Where it's near 53= degrees, > > > they're probably oversubscribed or lack terminal supply, or both. W= here it's > > > well away from 53 degrees, I'd guess they probably just lack satell= ite > > > capacity full stop. > > > > > > Ukraine is waitlisted...=3F But wait - didn't Starlink just take ov= er the > > > Internet there=3F Interesting also that one of the waitlist / no se= rvice areas > > > in Germany is right where they had the floods & where Starlink got = deployed > > > very publicly with (I understand) some success. Did the locals hang= on to the > > > emergency dishys and does this now saturate the network there=3F An= d what did > > > the Greeks do to be all waitlisted=3F > > > > > > So what happens if you roam from a place with availability into a p= lace with > > > =22waitlist=22 status=3F Anyone with a dishy up for a road trip wit= h a story to > > > tell=3F > > > > > > =2425/month sounds steep but is probably modest in comparison to th= e roaming > > > charges that some cellular providers charge. > > > > > > On 5/05/2022 7:00 pm, David Lang wrote: > > > > received this Wednesday evening. > > > > Makes sense, > > > > > > > > David Lang > > > > > > > > ---------- =46orwarded message ---------- > > > > Portability Now Available > > > > > > > > Starlink is excited to announce Portability as an add-on feature = for all > > > > Starlink customers. Portability enables customers to temporarily = move their > > > > Starlink to new locations and receive high-speed internet anywher= e where > > > > Starlink provides active coverage within the same continent. To s= ee active > > > > coverage areas, please view the Starlink Availability Map ( > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttp://www.starlink.com/map=5F=5F= ;=21=21P7nkOOY=21sj8OeR4-Jc81zUlPLyHWjevs2T7Wu=46V5ewjaeOYg3m3H3=5FmuO=5F= XNGIDy3-WKuyifj4KWtvvwT-EHPQ=24 ). > > > > > > > > You can enable Portability for =2425/month on your account page (= > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttps://starlink.com/account=5F=5F= ;=21=21P7nkOOY=21sj8OeR4-Jc81zUlPLyHWjevs2T7Wu=46V5ewjaeOYg3m3H3=5FmuO=5F= XNGIDy3-WKuyifj4KWtvus-BPS0Q=24 ). Once > > > > enabled, Portability will take effect immediately, and you can di= sable > > > > Portability from your account page at any time. > > > > > > > > To learn more about Starlink Portability, please read our =46AQ p= age ( > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttp://www.starlink.com/faq=5F=5F= ;=21=21P7nkOOY=21sj8OeR4-Jc81zUlPLyHWjevs2T7Wu=46V5ewjaeOYg3m3H3=5FmuO=5F= XNGIDy3-WKuyifj4KWtvsNiQtW4A=24 ). > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= > > > > Starlink mailing list > > > > Starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttps://lists.bufferbloat.net/lis= tinfo/starlink=5F=5F;=21=21P7nkOOY=21sj8OeR4-Jc81zUlPLyHWjevs2T7Wu=46V5ew= jaeOYg3m3H3=5FmuO=5FXNGIDy3-WKuyifj4KWtvvD4clvWQ=24 > > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > Starlink mailing list > > Starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > Starlink mailing list > > Starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > > -- > =46Q World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state=5Fof= =5Ffq=5Fcodel/ > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC --6274e7ab_3f2dba31_431d Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
To your specific question, I was not running traffi= c during this test, but I have in a previous one, and I can say that up t= o 100Mbps in downlink the data rate is stable, above that you start seein= g bursts and buffering. Will post more results after the weekend (flying = back to Barcelona right now).

I do various things with this setup:
  • I read the gRPC as fast as I can. Some items on it update quite fast,= such as POP latency, others such as throughput once per second.
  • I read power usage at about 4-5 Hz
  • I read GPS at 1 Hz (also used for PPS sync)
  • I can optionally run iPerf3 tests in either uplink, downlink, or both= , with various target tput (using TCP for now, will add UDP)
  • The data is stored on a local SQLite DB, and if there is a link, also= gets sent to a logging server which is sat at the POP (literally, it=E2=80= =99s in MAD, sub-millisecond away), so no delay from extra hops once out = of the POP.
  • All data sent to the server contains whatever is being read, plus the= microsecond timestamp of the client, and a UUID that ties all readings t= o a particular logging run.
  • The logging server adds its own microsecond timestamp to every record= when received, so I can measure time delay between client packets, but a= lso inter-packet delay between logger box and server.
I had to patch iPerf3 to add a =E2=80=94custom-uuid= flag, to replace the random generated one, so I can match iperf tests to= all the other data sources by a common uuid.

I have written some code to time-align the various data streams at differ= ent rates, but still working on visualization layer.

Best,

Mike
On May 6, 2022, 07:12 +0400, Dave T= aht <dave.taht=40gmail.com>, wrote:
What are you using to drive the pop latency test=3F

(i was using irtt client -i3ms -d1h fremont.starlink.taht.net)

Is it a test of pure idle latency or do the spikes at (for example)
= t+12m42s represent simultaneous traffic=3F

Is the peak of the graph there the actual peak, or not autoscaling to
the actual peak=3F

On Thu, May 5, 2022 at 7:42 PM Mike Puchol <mike=40starlink.sx> wro= te:

I did a one hour drive test combined with a data logger (calling it LeoBo= x for now), posted it compressed into 15=E2=80=99

https://youtu.be/UExU-=5FVHWjA

Best,

Mike
On May 6, 2022, 03:46 +0400, Larry Press <lpress=40csudh.edu>, wrot= e:

In a week or two I'm going to take my dish = out and drive around for a few hours

Roaming in motion works -- see the updates at the end of this post:
= https://circleid.com/posts/20220225-spacex-is-testing-starlink-roaming But it's not yet officially supported.

Elon Musk says it's working in Ukraine.

Stationary roaming, portability, is now officially offered at extra cost = and with some constraints:
https://support.starlink.com/=3Ftopic=3D1426e78a-7384-0334-3fc0-ddf5a76d7= afe

Larry

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
=46rom: Starlink <starlink-bounces=40lists.bufferbloat.net> on beha= lf of David Lang <david=40lang.hm>
Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2022 2:21 AM
To: Ulrich Speidel <u.speidel=40auckland.ac.nz>
Cc: starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net <starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net= >
Subject: Re: =5BStarlink=5D Portability Now Available (fwd)

remember that starlink is getting coverage from many satellites as they c= ome
over, it's not like geostationary satellites that can aim specific antenn= as at
specific locations (i.e. 'spotbeams' are not a thing)


(just received the inverter I ordered, now to convert the plugs...)
=
I expect the waitlist is a combination of two things.

1. the number of subscribers already in the area
2. supply availability (I expect this is why Ukraine is a waitlist, they = have
supplied dishes to the government, but if you try to order one yourself, = you
would have to wait)

David Lang

On Thu, 5 May 2022, Ulrich Speidel wrote:

Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 19:40:01 +1200
=46rom: Ulrich Speidel <u.speidel=40auckland.ac.nz>
To: starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: =5BStarlink=5D Portability Now Available (fwd)

Cool. Very interesting=21 That's one pile of information all of a sudden.= They
could do that more often IMHO.

Nothing like official confirmation that the tropics are an almost
Starlink-free zone, and that places reasonably away from the 53rd paralle= ls
are secondary service zones. They forgot their 50-odd terminals in Tonga = (I
heard yesterday about someone in the northern islands who brought a dishy=
from overseas and found it didn't work... obviously believed the headline= s...
sigh).

Also interesting that there seems to be, finally, some sort of disclosure= on
cell size. Someone will need to explain to me why there are waitlist area= s in
the Auckland area surrounded by full service. The areas concerned are rur= al,
which you'd think they'd want to service with priority over our
well-connected CBD... Too many subscribers there already, or not enough t= o
warrant a spot beam=3F Similar soft spots near Sydney, holes in =46oveaux= Strait,
the Hauraki Gulf, southeast of Murray Bridge in South Australia, southern=
Chile, ... What do I read into this=3F Two-fold: Where it's near 53 degre= es,
they're probably oversubscribed or lack terminal supply, or both. Where i= t's
well away from 53 degrees, I'd guess they probably just lack satellite capacity full stop.

Ukraine is waitlisted...=3F But wait - didn't Starlink just take over the=
Internet there=3F Interesting also that one of the waitlist / no service = areas
in Germany is right where they had the floods & where Starlink got de= ployed
very publicly with (I understand) some success. Did the locals hang on to= the
emergency dishys and does this now saturate the network there=3F And what= did
the Greeks do to be all waitlisted=3F

So what happens if you roam from a place with availability into a place w= ith
=22waitlist=22 status=3F Anyone with a dishy up for a road trip with a st= ory to
tell=3F

=2425/month sounds steep but is probably modest in comparison to the roam= ing
charges that some cellular providers charge.

On 5/05/2022 7:00 pm, David Lang wrote:
received this Wednesday evening.
Makes sense,

David Lang

---------- =46orwarded message ----------
Portability Now Available

Starlink is excited to announce Portability as an add-on feature for all<= br /> Starlink customers. Portability enables customers to temporarily move the= ir
Starlink to new locations and receive high-speed internet anywhere where<= br /> Starlink provides active coverage within the same continent. To see activ= e
coverage areas, please view the Starlink Availability Map (
https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttp://www.starlink.com/map=5F=5F;=21=21P= 7nkOOY=21sj8OeR4-Jc81zUlPLyHWjevs2T7Wu=46V5ewjaeOYg3m3H3=5FmuO=5FXNGIDy3-= WKuyifj4KWtvvwT-EHPQ=24 <https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttp://www.st= arlink.com/map=5F=5F;=21=21P7nkOOY=21sj8OeR4-Jc81zUlPLyHWjevs2T7Wu=46V5ew= jaeOYg3m3H3=5FmuO=5FXNGIDy3-WKuyifj4KWtvvwT-EHPQ=24 > ).

You can enable Portability for =2425/month on your account page (
https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttps://starlink.com/account=5F=5F;=21=21= P7nkOOY=21sj8OeR4-Jc81zUlPLyHWjevs2T7Wu=46V5ewjaeOYg3m3H3=5FmuO=5FXNGIDy3= -WKuyifj4KWtvus-BPS0Q=24 <https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttps://star= link.com/account=5F=5F;=21=21P7nkOOY=21sj8OeR4-Jc81zUlPLyHWjevs2T7Wu=46V5= ewjaeOYg3m3H3=5FmuO=5FXNGIDy3-WKuyifj4KWtvus-BPS0Q=24 > ). Once
enabled, Portability will take effect immediately, and you can disable Portability from your account page at any time.

To learn more about Starlink Portability, please read our =46AQ page ( https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttp://www.starlink.com/faq=5F=5F;=21=21P= 7nkOOY=21sj8OeR4-Jc81zUlPLyHWjevs2T7Wu=46V5ewjaeOYg3m3H3=5FmuO=5FXNGIDy3-= WKuyifj4KWtvsNiQtW4A=24 <https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttp://www.st= arlink.com/faq=5F=5F;=21=21P7nkOOY=21sj8OeR4-Jc81zUlPLyHWjevs2T7Wu=46V5ew= jaeOYg3m3H3=5FmuO=5FXNGIDy3-WKuyifj4KWtvsNiQtW4A=24 > ).
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
Starlink mailing list
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--
=46Q World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state=5Fof=5F= fq=5Fcodel/
Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
--6274e7ab_3f2dba31_431d--