From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (ipv6.swm.pp.se [IPv6:2a00:801::f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 167753CB35 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2021 05:57:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 13EC6B1; Wed, 30 Jun 2021 11:57:27 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1625047047; bh=edp4XDyFLktml4w16ZniNtSxGwfXzHnVFsyZAfLBYT8=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=f9yOXvSrqxbgtQZgxaLBMBKx67RzQ25QxYDb0g60pelriyxz5PT0a29Vd0+tH3kCW nciEHtwqHIusX9+BYKL6oJpNKR+HpnOxkS+CttmM++Z3tuUTc5Kb8yTIGKwqMRZ9fB Iz9dgrPhs7VbKrcbEHsR3/Ab2yvgS31Q/JL8UyYg= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11DFAAF; Wed, 30 Jun 2021 11:57:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 11:57:27 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: David Lang cc: Mike Puchol , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <85542036-9ff8-75d2-438e-c86cc0c105d8@sokolov.eu.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [Starlink] 69,000 Users X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 09:57:29 -0000 On Wed, 30 Jun 2021, David Lang wrote: > I suspect that they will be more limited by the number of stations they > can build than the interest from customers. As user density increases, > they will need to launch more satellites, but as Starship comes online, > the cost to do so will drop significantly. My opinion here is that it's a bw game. with 1M customers doing a few megabits/s each, that's significant amount of bw capacity needed. Even with tens of thousands of satellites (each significant cost to build and launch), I still don't really see how they'll handle many millions of customers. Terrestrial mobile networks still haven't really come around to unlimited data that actually works, so we'll see how well Starlink can do this. There was a power outage affecting around 50k households yesterday, I presume most peoples' residential connections/wifis stopped working, and they all went mobile. This rendered the local mobile networks basically unusable, people reported 10s RTT on some of the packets that were actually delivered. 5G base stations today are in the gigabits/s magnitude of total air capacity, even if they have similar for the satellites it's going to be problematic to keep up. I think they'll have to keep charging a premium price, higher than today, or implement data cap. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se