From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from vsmx001.dclux.xion.oxcs.net (vsmx001.dclux.xion.oxcs.net [185.74.65.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00FAB3B2A4 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 07:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from proxy-2.proxy.oxio.ns.xion.oxcs.net (proxy-2.proxy.oxio.ns.xion.oxcs.net [197.248.60.185]) by mx-out.dclux.xion.oxcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1DCD28C0393; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 11:57:25 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dclux.xion.oxcs.net; s=mail1; t=1650369449; bh=OwKRqQj00eDA9i3FqyOMvUP7H30Xm2u2qpNNGAfYK78=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=o8iVx2kTzPDmdjs8N/U4xn4RKz8ohh3jBUIHCN5Rnh7fPEpEg4cgRySigEb3ABfby /jEY3RpdGN/L3qSJEOAV6Uuux/jIWNX2L8IsAI0P7ii7M2KKttQDX3x5RrEZJ4t7Pk kbGZSPQ4JDep0Rm+DSISXp8Si68tlP7FzXYO0dXZx83KE+VXEgy8YtxOPqsf6+5ptK bucc7B0APFB5QRj57hLn6FHmaP0FJWdwFS4k1WkdFOd78APcXlRpq2aYAf6f1+Ds/W x5GqxahIdL1Ucx4GHi883LsbAumtCJAxiilYed9Whzu9yAebXiUKb9OeOuLwWUcEws z8rSzwmCgJFbg== Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 14:57:16 +0300 From: Mike Puchol To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, Ulrich Speidel Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <0d78acc3-1101-c7d2-c7a6-53158b8c1045@vdr.net> <44b2b090-457b-eb59-a75a-a0bbb0307073@candelatech.com> <431oq9ns-qnpn-n56r-6np6-374rsq317q@ynat.uz> <8ecdc077-1751-4302-a013-fa35b2291a87@Spark> <380541e2-c5fa-b3ff-b28c-8d3d993be416@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <5d9dab2c-3c20-4d18-aa1d-cc72bf250843@Spark> <16b22115-3ec4-cdec-2cb3-ab03d75d9275@falco.ca> <866041e1-efaf-43f1-b218-6a6d73f6496f@Spark> X-Readdle-Message-ID: c58f12b9-f1c3-4cda-8db5-ac795b5cafbc@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="625ea3a1_baac1b4_3bd" X-VadeSecure-Status: LEGIT X-VADE-STATUS: LEGIT Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink for Tonga? X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 11:57:31 -0000 --625ea3a1_baac1b4_3bd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I had totally missed this p= ost: http://www.fintel.com.fj/pages.cfm/company/news/spacex-starlink-gateway--= fintel.html It seems the gateway was setup in =46intel=E2=80=99s existing earth stati= on, four antennas only, however, and the cables in surface ducts. Best, Mike On =46eb 25, 2022, 20:12 +0300, Ulrich Speidel , wrote: > I've heard nothing further about teleport establishment in =46iji, but = that doesn't mean that nothing has happened. > Meanwhile, cable repair has progressed a good bit. The damage was far g= reater than originally envisaged. On the international cable, faults (com= plete cable ruptures and fibre damage) stretched over more than 80 km. Th= e cable ran entirely SOUTH of the Hunga Tonga Hunga Ha'apai volcano (abou= t 60 km away and shielded by a number of submarine mounts for at least pa= rts of the damaged section). Yet the Reliance cable ship traced one disco= nnected cable piece end to about 5 km NORTH of its nominal route, found v= arious sections had disappeared completely, and recovered sections of up = to 9 km at a time from the seabed. > A bog standard cable break requires two holding drives (or drags), HD f= or short, to pick up each of the cable endpoints from the seafloor. It al= so requires either an ROV dive to check if the cable has completely separ= ated at the fault position, or a cut if the cable is still held together = by the steel. That cut can be done either by ROV as well, or if visibilit= y doesn't permit ROV use, by a cutting drive (CD). Any HD or CD requires = the cable ship to tow a seafloor grapnel / cutter device transversally ac= ross the cable, so they're easy to spot on position traces. The Reliance = did no fewer than seven HD's in its eastern operations area near Tongatap= u, where it worked first. Visibility there was good (so ROV could be used= ), but damage substantial. > The ship then proceeded to the western end of the fault zone where refl= ectometer measurements from the Suva end had found a fault. Because of ba= d visibility, they did a CD followed by 2 HD's there, then noticed that t= here was fibre damage along the cable to Suva, so reeled that in and cut = the damaged bit out. > They then proceeded to put a =22mini-system=22 together. Let me explain= : Enroute to Tonga, the Reliance stopped at Subcom's depot in Apia (Samoa= ) to load whatever cable they had in store there. This included spares no= t only for the =46iji-Tonga cable but also for various other cable system= s in the wider region. Reliance left Apia with about 80 km of cable in to= tal. The amount of cable that will need to be re-laid along the damaged i= nternational section is 90 km (you need to allow for a bit of cable lengt= hening due to slack being inserted when cable ends are being brought up f= rom 2000 m (6000 ft) or so below). This means that the Reliance is re-usi= ng some of the cable recovered from the damaged section, and the whole =22= mini-system=22 will be one long stitch job. The damaged section also incl= uded a repeater worth US=24230k, which they were trying to recover and wh= ich was still missing as of this morning - I've yet to hear from my conta= ct as to whether they were successful on the last recovery attempt today = (they've left the area after three drives and are heading West right now.= The rest of the mini-system was going to be laid after the repeater reco= very attempt (the overall success doesn't depend on the repeater being fo= und, but the final repair bill does). I thus expect the cable repair to b= e completed in the next few days. > The domestic cable is another story altogether, unfortunately. This has= a blind stretch of 77 km at present, as measured by optical reflectomete= r from Tongatapu and Ha'apai (there was meant to be a measurement from Va= va'u yesterday but I haven't heard yet what this revealed, the cable from= Tongatapu has two fibre pairs, one of which heads to each destination fr= om a branching unit west of Ha'apai. That said, once the international ca= ble has been fixed, the Reliance won't have enough cable left to complete= the domestic job, even if some cable bits could be recovered there. The = next available stock of suitable cable is in Europe, around 35-40 days on= e-way shipping away. They intend to bridge this time gap via satellite (a= nd I'm sure would welcome a Starlink delegation with a teleport to connec= t to the international cable, too, especially now that the Australian Nav= y gave them Omicron along with their aid deliveries). > I've been in close contact with our volcanology / geophysics community = here in NZ, who know the area well. The story of damage to the internatio= nal cable is now shaping up to be a pretty complex one. What we know thus= far is that it was neither the volcano's initial blast nor the subsequen= t tsunami that killed the cable - the outage began only well after the ts= unami had hit. In all probability, it's been a combination of submarine l= andslides and turbidite waves from a variety of sources that hit hours an= d possibly many days after the eruption. =46inding that a cable piece has= moved 5 km TOWARDS the volcano points at an event south of the cable rou= te, and the mix of seafloor visibilities encountered by the Reliance poin= ts at there having multiple events from multiple sources. There have been= plenty of quakes upwards of M4 and even an M6.2 in the wider area that c= ould have triggered slopes, especially with an extra layer of ash on them= . Turbidite waves can travel up to 1000 km, aren't anywhere near as fast = as a tsunami, and have long been known to have damaged cables in the past= (see B.C. Heezen and M. Ewing, Turbidity currents and submarine slumps, = and the 1929 Grand Banks Earthquake, American Journal of Science, v. 250,= pp 849-873, December 1952. This quake killed 12 submarine cables over mo= re than 18 hours). > Meanwhile, there's still limited satellite service in and out of Tonga,= but I can confirm that e-mails (even with attachments) make it in and ou= t OK. > On 18/02/2022 8:27 pm, Mike Puchol wrote: > > Hi Daniel, > > > > I added it after there was a confirmation on Twitter that SpaceX peop= le were on the ground to set one up, and also, as two /27 blocks (IPv4) h= ave been assigned to =46iji=E2=80=99s capital, under the Sydney POP, and = they can be pinged. > > > > Wether it=E2=80=99s at the teleport or not, unsure, but for simulatio= n, an error of even a few km doesn=E2=80=99t really matter. > > > > Best, > > > > Mike > > On =46eb 18, 2022, 06:04 +0100, Daniel AJ Sokolov = , wrote: > > > On 2022-02-07 at 15:29, Mike Puchol wrote: > > > > As far as placing a gateway in =46iji, it already has a teleport > > > > facility, which will have power and fibre (unless that one has be= en > > > > taken out too=3F). Checkhttps://goo.gl/maps/6BYXf4R17yys7zNe9 > > > > > > Hey Mike, you put a =22SUVA (Emergency)=22 ground station on starli= nk.sx. > > > > > > Is that for simulation, or has Starlink actually installed a ground= > > > station in =46idschi by now=3F Would you have positive confirmation= =3F > > > > > > Thank you > > > Daniel > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > > Starlink mailing list > > > Starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > Starlink mailing list > > Starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > -- > **************************************************************** > Dr. Ulrich Speidel > > School of Computer Science > > Room 303S.594 (City Campus) > > The University of Auckland > u.speidel=40auckland.ac.nz > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/=7Eulrich/ > **************************************************************** > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > Starlink mailing list > Starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink --625ea3a1_baac1b4_3bd Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I had= totally missed this post:

http://www.fintel.com= .fj/pages.cfm/company/news/spacex-starlink-gateway--fintel.html
=
It seems the gateway was setup in =46intel=E2=80=99s existing earth stati= on, four antennas only, however, and the cables in surface ducts.

Best,

Mike
On =46eb 25, 2022, 20:12 +0300, Ulr= ich Speidel <u.speidel=40auckland.ac.nz>, wrote:

I've heard nothing further about teleport establishment in =46iji, but= that doesn't mean that nothing has happened.

Meanwhile, cable repair has progressed a good bit. The damage was far = greater than originally envisaged. On the international cable, faults (co= mplete cable ruptures and fibre damage) stretched over more than 80 km. T= he cable ran entirely SOUTH of the Hunga Tonga Hunga Ha'apai volcano (abo= ut 60 km away and shielded by a number of submarine mounts for at least p= arts of the damaged section). Yet the Reliance cable ship traced one disc= onnected cable piece end to about 5 km NORTH of its nominal route, found = various sections had disappeared completely, and recovered sections of up= to 9 km at a time from the seabed.

A bog standard cable break requires two holding drives (or drags), HD = for short, to pick up each of the cable endpoints from the seafloor. It a= lso requires either an ROV dive to check if the cable has completely sepa= rated at the fault position, or a cut if the cable is still held together= by the steel. That cut can be done either by ROV as well, or if visibili= ty doesn't permit ROV use, by a cutting drive (CD). Any HD or CD requires= the cable ship to tow a seafloor grapnel / cutter device transversally a= cross the cable, so they're easy to spot on position traces. The Reliance= did no fewer than seven HD's in its eastern operations area near Tongata= pu, where it worked first. Visibility there was good (so ROV could be use= d), but damage substantial.

The ship then proceeded to the western end of the fault zone where ref= lectometer measurements from the Suva end had found a fault. Because of b= ad visibility, they did a CD followed by 2 HD's there, then noticed that = there was fibre damage along the cable to Suva, so reeled that in and cut= the damaged bit out.

They then proceeded to put a =22mini-system=22 together. Let me explai= n: Enroute to Tonga, the Reliance stopped at Subcom's depot in Apia (Samo= a) to load whatever cable they had in store there. This included spares n= ot only for the =46iji-Tonga cable but also for various other cable syste= ms in the wider region. Reliance left Apia with about 80 km of cable in t= otal. The amount of cable that will need to be re-laid along the damaged = international section is 90 km (you need to allow for a bit of cable leng= thening due to slack being inserted when cable ends are being brought up = from 2000 m (6000 ft) or so below). This means that the Reliance is re-us= ing some of the cable recovered from the damaged section, and the whole =22= mini-system=22 will be one long stitch job. The damaged section also incl= uded a repeater worth US=24230k, which they were trying to recover and wh= ich was still missing as of this morning - I've yet to hear from my conta= ct as to whether they were successful on the last recovery attempt today = (they've left the area after three drives and are heading West right now.= The rest of the mini-system was going to be laid after the repeater reco= very attempt (the overall success doesn't depend on the repeater being fo= und, but the final repair bill does). I thus expect the cable repair to b= e completed in the next few days.

The domestic cable is another story altogether, unfortunately. This ha= s a blind stretch of 77 km at present, as measured by optical reflectomet= er from Tongatapu and Ha'apai (there was meant to be a measurement from V= ava'u yesterday but I haven't heard yet what this revealed, the cable fro= m Tongatapu has two fibre pairs, one of which heads to each destination f= rom a branching unit west of Ha'apai. That said, once the international c= able has been fixed, the Reliance won't have enough cable left to complet= e the domestic job, even if some cable bits could be recovered there. The= next available stock of suitable cable is in Europe, around 35-40 days o= ne-way shipping away. They intend to bridge this time gap via satellite (= and I'm sure would welcome a Starlink delegation with a teleport to conne= ct to the international cable, too, especially now that the Australian Na= vy gave them Omicron along with their aid deliveries).

I've been in close contact with our volcanology / geophysics community= here in NZ, who know the area well. The story of damage to the internati= onal cable is now shaping up to be a pretty complex one. What we know thu= s far is that it was neither the volcano's initial blast nor the subseque= nt tsunami that killed the cable - the outage began only well after the t= sunami had hit. In all probability, it's been a combination of submarine = landslides and turbidite waves from a variety of sources that hit hours a= nd possibly many days after the eruption. =46inding that a cable piece ha= s moved 5 km TOWARDS the volcano points at an event south of the cable ro= ute, and the mix of seafloor visibilities encountered by the Reliance poi= nts at there having multiple events from multiple sources. There have bee= n plenty of quakes upwards of M4 and even an M6.2 in the wider area that = could have triggered slopes, especially with an extra layer of ash on the= m. Turbidite waves can travel up to 1000 km, aren't anywhere near as fast= as a tsunami, and have long been known to have damaged cables in the pas= t (see B.C. Heezen and M. Ewing, Turbidity currents and submarine slumps,= and the 1929 Grand Banks Earthquake, American Journal of Science, v. 250= , pp 849-873, December 1952. This quake killed 12 submarine cables over m= ore than 18 hours).

Meanwhile, there's still limited satellite service in and out of Tonga= , but I can confirm that e-mails (even with attachments) make it in and o= ut OK.

On 18/02/2022 8:27 pm, Mike Puchol wro= te:
Hi Daniel,

I added it after there was a confirmation on Twitter that SpaceX people w= ere on the ground to set one up, and also, as two /27 blocks (IPv4) have = been assigned to =46iji=E2=80=99s capital, under the Sydney POP, and they= can be pinged.

Wether it=E2=80=99s at the teleport or not, unsure, but for simulation, a= n error of even a few km doesn=E2=80=99t really matter.

Best,

Mike
On =46eb 18, 2022, 06:04 +0100, Dan= iel AJ Sokolov <daniel=40falco.ca>, wrote:
On 2022-02-07 at 15:29, Mike Puchol wrote:
As far as placing a gateway in =46iji, it a= lready has a teleport
facility, which will have power and fibre (unless that one has been
= taken out too=3F). Checkhttps://goo.gl/maps/6BYXf4R17yys7z= Ne9

Hey Mike, you put a =22SUVA (Emergency)=22 ground station on starlink.sx.=

Is that for simulation, or has Starlink actually installed a ground
= station in =46idschi by now=3F Would you have positive confirmation=3F
Thank you
Daniel
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
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https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

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Starlink mailing list
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k


-- =20
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel

School of Computer Science

Room 303S.594 (City Campus)

The University of Auckland
u.speidel=40auckland.ac.nz =20
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/=7Eulrich/
****************************************************************
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
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