From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from dispatch1-us1.ppe-hosted.com (dispatch1-us1.ppe-hosted.com [67.231.154.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 299B93B29D for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 12:34:14 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: Proofpoint Essentials engine Received: from mx1-us1.ppe-hosted.com (unknown [10.110.51.25]) by mx1-us1.ppe-hosted.com (PPE Hosted ESMTP Server) with ESMTPS id 0E35E2A0073 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 17:34:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail3.candelatech.com (mail2.candelatech.com [208.74.158.173]) by mx1-us1.ppe-hosted.com (PPE Hosted ESMTP Server) with ESMTP id D6694B00085 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 17:34:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.100.195] (50-251-239-81-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.251.239.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail3.candelatech.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 401A613C2B0 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 09:34:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mail3.candelatech.com 401A613C2B0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=candelatech.com; s=default; t=1646674452; bh=NlssP7v4xwN7qfRPUiK7+TW5uRtVUNe4MQkt7BYLH7s=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=sJufYRUJzpZGTnDNXGP+R4ri2vbJR8gTX7wxlsy5ITu3EeK6X7d1Tb74U4zKbvG25 Dz6Q5vUTfduVqxaAt4tNQTTLILoUK/4gLf/E8/sObkK7nMOPz/xXowJvJOFciZ1BIE RdJRDcYzNuXK/JJU3aDQlNtcBKn4m91TbLS6hqP0= To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net References: <1646527180.51036626@apps.rackspace.com> <1646601019.667431004@apps.rackspace.com> From: Ben Greear Organization: Candela Technologies Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2022 09:34:11 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1646601019.667431004@apps.rackspace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MDID: 1646674453-qi-df0uY7ZQX Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink deplyment in Ukraine X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 17:34:14 -0000 On 3/6/22 1:10 PM, David P. Reed wrote: > Very interesting info about where current ground stations are, but of course Kyiv, Lviv, Kharkiv are close to some adjacent countries that already have Starlink > ground stations (didn't know they were up and running in Turkey). > > Regarding ground-level repeating, the radio horizon is very short except in VHF where you can in principle bounce off the ionosphere. Don't join the Flat Earth > Society, the earth isn't very flat at all. > > (yes, some small bands actually bend around the earth in the Troposhere, but bitrates feasible in that bandwidth is very poor. Maybe voice grade) > > Microwave multihop links require LOS and except from mountaintop to mountaintop, it's hard to maintain them cheaply - Wall St uses microwaves between NYC and > Chicago, because the latency is much lower number of microseconds than direct fiber would be (little known fact about the difference between speed of light in > glass vs. air). > > These technologies are "off the shelf" for fixed wireless deployment, but if I were trying to maintain or build a quick replacement for existing cables using > wireless, I suspect it would largely be too little, too late. For email, and anything else that can be stored and forwarded, you should be able to zig-zag from ground to sky to ground, but it would take specialized software setup on the ground intermediate hops (something like bittorrent and/or an email proxy I guess), and it would require the sky to be able to hair-pin ground-to-ground. So, a bit of work, but hopefully is software-only fix. For instance: Ground-east-1 <-> sky-to-the-west <-> ground-middle <-> sky-more-to-the-west <-> internet-ground-station-to-the-west And maybe it is not directly due west due to orbital mechanics, but I think you get the idea. Latency would be in minutes or maybe hours, but that is still a lot better than nothing. Thanks, Ben -- Ben Greear Candela Technologies Inc http://www.candelatech.com