From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Authentication-Results: mail.toke.dk; dkim=pass header.d=pollere.net header.i=@pollere.net header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=dreamhost header.b=ikKoDfCa; arc=none (Message is not ARC signed); dmarc=none Received: from heron.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (heron.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.82]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F447137BBAF for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 16:00:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nichols@pollere.net Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55274C0CFE for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 13:49:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a219.dreamhost.com (100-104-12-6.trex-nlb.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.104.12.6]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4AE944C20A4 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 13:49:20 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nichols@pollere.net X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|nichols@pollere.net X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Daffy-Stretch: 1b253336193b3884_1784728160579_1002472853 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1784728160579:714963864 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1784728160579 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a219.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.104.12.6 (trex/8.0.2); Wed, 22 Jul 2026 13:49:20 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.249] (unknown [98.97.63.29]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nichols@pollere.net) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a219.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4h4wbN0Nh5z4H for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 06:49:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pollere.net; s=dreamhost; t=1784728160; bh=iVmFybiuZjiaaNrzC/gnyNihcc1MimGB6lM2YOU9tRk=; h=Date:Subject:To:From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ikKoDfCaTdRyK8S0Ly3YVX1InFslL+x5FSGPrlvmc5R9vdIXrlsbiozrCFmc0hf2q 3oAa/rP/EluuLnTImPiAIwjzssMf6CJytIDTwxI8SFWUoY44aBAlIMhkeyfnDfBdxJ JkG7YFHVB5nsDpsxOWJmr600MpH+iEkEkkEqD2hQoIm0oAFg3x2If0/p+UyfU+5gZN cTGJvvtant4rP8jmL0HwDsCaD9D9ryiTxTCmGap+F+FtJMQerl/GVEg1WI0P/s8Gk4 qklm4HCTPns8x0eZ+27ButsgDcON+pmrJUnxu2beJWzJIt6jOSHt7ji0sbigay53J7 pv45LOfECfBbw== Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2026 06:49:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net References: Content-Language: en-US From: Kathleen Nichols Autocrypt: addr=nichols@pollere.net; keydata= xsDiBEC83ecRBAC+SoOIjjcKTrEvMEA6p7BamLNoS5P/Pb51j184ZU2/s3aCLl3Q/BCkFxT+ cFCnthIsgxMXrSGELwRkevkTX8GUlBaKIvrp7Ye9NjbYBC1NZWFyAKzZUI1eF2AibUbXAFtV qAIPyCXuMdaOSrXTPAdbHIQxZk9zEa6Xh0zj1uwczwCg7iDV4fIclpmP8arjkQWm8grrwi8D /2Bb81fEGvF83KVNoPiy1hNfrIHmYevQiLaOVJkJPQzi+DxJSRCRkAV7z7nAhXXWVCWkshHL r5d07ElPZPgxft74pk3U6ygqFAGz97V8A2+7ZLa2RHwgb5ZIUeaSMgpXqUfxjDQuq34AQBWX 8xwwBR4JhuhxrN+8uZEMG0Neqm5SA/9wkL6moHBKl+PvV3O7ap+kVXC97NfVFG72b8EVvw5W HRUtUGdxFhNuAhS4QNWaCdYOm6VC9xlZGhykcXAzyC0tjB8Kbk44KzJrtIzpCWoI58PZSCPD n8PhFKKItcQ/hY8QNAeHEcEvInCjNz/w+7ik0gF8xQy2yA9eulVzg7l2380mS2F0aGxlZW4g TmljaG9scyA8bmljaG9sc0Bwb2xsZXJlLm5ldD7CYgQTEQIAIgUCVL1s9AIbAwYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ+dkULylClLYRYwCgzd2IlR14SGzqKWdxY5W4kJ1yAyQA oI6A9QUyuoz/5DDBN1o5g/nFXpS5zsFNBEC83ocQCACXUuOfleOzud5aRpG20cdZcmGwn46Y K7vXPKHrtKema3u3AhDhm/dpU2hnD/1bflCnHk2TX/MNnJ/9jVLVAMcj1GmXS4Zj/DMypQ2/ 5r213nBbWEjcS4wOhFEAcfApEU0d4LG/v/SPDJqqrvP5txXxox9z7JG0OEXeGzZU8Ro5LAkJ HJSBdSN1je61XYolMbPvZ8Wo9APIJnJEIc1DG2+3oHgJA1a2QN+xnia4hs90CnR/VDcBSH/l yFk0lWnBxeJLwqYTWgGRLAM4JtA3C3LYe/h6gK2o4ug0NRcKRBdJk4pHDJenjKx1LjjpGEBA L5FyZqAA+3Do9PH8Pzm4vDKDAAMGCACBSF4C01c4XJgm/qw0moM7sxcb2nBVIpEubl8OHQf3 zLX2UAoNy8SKjHZsyp984jTLBr/VHqY/+BsL9W1uPf0ssPnYieq58aMtRXEtFCF2i4m6CZoj a+hFImKhIIvvhGE1rYyK13AnvjywTDK0XadJwqNKNPwZasHnK7xx/foKmaMilZL4UwRDEs39 1FQfbhcm83NZ2xGEuK+fYAg8VA5pTIUcrhQEC9sORQ3g5Alw+2o13oC6fO/SyQ9iqnOZ0WBq +cJE10zM7K5aNuNI/853ot9fglOHRnlDnxd9pg+QxGq1L4O4l3rjoLbtiqtGOzJpUAguBsGu JZQJgyS9fkNjwkkEGBECAAkFAkC83ocCGwwACgkQ+dkULylClLYI6wCgtctwza77h+XplNbp hHp3WFniTxwAn1duX7R8SZX7KDSysitOQEXN3v6O In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID-Hash: VYJ3RMJIW2E27SLES2SB3QJTRTUOOTRQ X-Message-ID-Hash: VYJ3RMJIW2E27SLES2SB3QJTRTUOOTRQ X-MailFrom: nichols@pollere.net X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; loop; banned-address; emergency; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.10 Precedence: list Subject: [Starlink] Re: Dissecting Starlink: head-drop queuing, AQM, and flow dynamics (SIGCOMM '26) List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: This is interesting work, thanks. But I want to point out that, if indeed the "Loss frequency grows with queue occupancy" that isn't CoDel which increases loss frequency with a persistent sojourn delay. (A large point of CoDel was to get away from queue occupancy as a congestion signal.) Kathie On 7/22/26 2:00 AM, Nitinder Mohan via Starlink wrote: ... > * There is a real AQM that deliberately drops to control occupancy. The uplink is aggressive and holds flows below a quarter of physical capacity. The downlink is more permissive. Loss frequency grows with queue occupancy, and the load-dependent profile looks closer to CoDel or adaptive RED than fixed RED. ...