* [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network
[not found] <CAHn=e4gXDRmiEOrSSm5GQRSbFDNS7Rz9L9C2VsMhoBYHgFHhtQ@mail.gmail.com>
@ 2023-08-17 14:47 ` Dave Taht
2023-08-17 16:42 ` Dave Taht
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Dave Taht @ 2023-08-17 14:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Taht via Starlink
This paper, at first glance, looks really, really good, measuring
detailed topology of the starlink network:
https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863
Thank you J Pan for passing it along!
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca>
Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:02 PM
Subject: starlink
To: dave.taht@gmail.com <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Hi Dave: thanks for your libreqos work. did you see
https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 ? cheers. -j
--
J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan
--
Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network
2023-08-17 14:47 ` [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network Dave Taht
@ 2023-08-17 16:42 ` Dave Taht
2023-09-15 10:58 ` Alexandre Petrescu
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Dave Taht @ 2023-08-17 16:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Taht via Starlink
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 7:47 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This paper, at first glance, looks really, really good, measuring
> detailed topology of the starlink network:
> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863
>
> Thank you J Pan for passing it along!
More recent data here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarlinkEngineering/comments/15p76j4/impressive_improvement_in_three_months_no_longer/
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca>
> Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:02 PM
> Subject: starlink
> To: dave.taht@gmail.com <dave.taht@gmail.com>
>
>
> Hi Dave: thanks for your libreqos work. did you see
> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 ? cheers. -j
> --
> J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan
>
>
> --
> Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
--
Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network
2023-08-17 16:42 ` Dave Taht
@ 2023-09-15 10:58 ` Alexandre Petrescu
2023-09-15 17:44 ` David Lang
2023-09-15 18:03 ` Dave Taht
0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Alexandre Petrescu @ 2023-09-15 10:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: starlink
Le 17/08/2023 à 18:42, Dave Taht via Starlink a écrit :
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 7:47 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This paper, at first glance, looks really, really good, measuring
>> detailed topology of the starlink network:
>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863
>>
>> Thank you J Pan for passing it along!
> More recent data here:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/StarlinkEngineering/comments/15p76j4/impressive_improvement_in_three_months_no_longer/
Sorry but I do not understand the graphs. The URL sounds great.
For my part, I can tell that I follow one particular sat chosen
arbitrarily (STARLINK-6064) on a public database since some weeks now
and it keeps at around 360km altitude. That is much lower than
500-or-so usual. Maybe it is that lower altitude that permits a higher
performance (lower latencies).
(there are other sats even lower, but not sure whether they're there in
error or on their way up).
Alex
>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca>
>> Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:02 PM
>> Subject: starlink
>> To: dave.taht@gmail.com <dave.taht@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> Hi Dave: thanks for your libreqos work. did you see
>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 ? cheers. -j
>> --
>> J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan
>>
>>
>> --
>> Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network
2023-09-15 10:58 ` Alexandre Petrescu
@ 2023-09-15 17:44 ` David Lang
2023-09-15 18:03 ` Dave Taht
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: David Lang @ 2023-09-15 17:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alexandre Petrescu; +Cc: starlink
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On Fri, 15 Sep 2023, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink wrote:
> For my part, I can tell that I follow one particular sat chosen
> arbitrarily (STARLINK-6064) on a public database since some weeks now
> and it keeps at around 360km altitude. That is much lower than
> 500-or-so usual. Maybe it is that lower altitude that permits a higher
> performance (lower latencies).
Interesting, their phase 2 satellites will be in 335-245Km orbits, but the
databases I've looked at don't show any of them being launched yet
> (there are other sats even lower, but not sure whether they're there in
> error or on their way up).
I've seen some lists showing sats at 70km, which is well below the definition of
'in space', so some of those numbers are just plain wrong.
David Lang
> Alex
>
>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca>
>>> Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:02 PM
>>> Subject: starlink
>>> To: dave.taht@gmail.com <dave.taht@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Dave: thanks for your libreqos work. did you see
>>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 ? cheers. -j
>>> --
>>> J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA,
> Web.UVic.CA/~pan
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
>>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network
2023-09-15 10:58 ` Alexandre Petrescu
2023-09-15 17:44 ` David Lang
@ 2023-09-15 18:03 ` Dave Taht
2023-09-21 12:26 ` Alexandre Petrescu
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Dave Taht @ 2023-09-15 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alexandre Petrescu; +Cc: starlink, J Pan
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2211 bytes --]
On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 3:58 AM Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink <
starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> Le 17/08/2023 à 18:42, Dave Taht via Starlink a écrit :
> > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 7:47 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> This paper, at first glance, looks really, really good, measuring
> >> detailed topology of the starlink network:
> >> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863
> >>
> >> Thank you J Pan for passing it along!
> > More recent data here:
> >
> https://www.reddit.com/r/StarlinkEngineering/comments/15p76j4/impressive_improvement_in_three_months_no_longer/
>
> Sorry but I do not understand the graphs. The URL sounds great.
>
>
I have cc´d the author.
> For my part, I can tell that I follow one particular sat chosen
> arbitrarily (STARLINK-6064) on a public database since some weeks now
> and it keeps at around 360km altitude. That is much lower than
> 500-or-so usual. Maybe it is that lower altitude that permits a higher
> performance (lower latencies).
>
Pretty neat!
>
> (there are other sats even lower, but not sure whether they're there in
> error or on their way up).
>
this was really good:
https://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/starlink_structure.pdf
Getting more correlated results from two or more stations in the same cell
would help.
> Alex
>
> >
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> >> From: J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca>
> >> Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:02 PM
> >> Subject: starlink
> >> To: dave.taht@gmail.com <dave.taht@gmail.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Dave: thanks for your libreqos work. did you see
> >> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 ? cheers. -j
> >> --
> >> J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA,
> Web.UVic.CA/~pan
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
> >> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
--
Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network
2023-09-15 18:03 ` Dave Taht
@ 2023-09-21 12:26 ` Alexandre Petrescu
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Alexandre Petrescu @ 2023-09-21 12:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Taht; +Cc: starlink, J Pan
Le 15/09/2023 à 20:03, Dave Taht a écrit :
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 3:58 AM Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink
> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> <mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote:
>
>
> Le 17/08/2023 à 18:42, Dave Taht via Starlink a écrit :
>> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 7:47 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com
> <mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> This paper, at first glance, looks really, really good,
>>> measuring detailed topology of the starlink network:
>>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863
>>> <https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863>
>>>
>>> Thank you J Pan for passing it along!
>> More recent data here:
>>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/StarlinkEngineering/comments/15p76j4/impressive_improvement_in_three_months_no_longer/
> <https://www.reddit.com/r/StarlinkEngineering/comments/15p76j4/impressive_improvement_in_three_months_no_longer/>
>
> Sorry but I do not understand the graphs. The URL sounds great.
>
>
> I have cc´d the author.
>
> For my part, I can tell that I follow one particular sat chosen
> arbitrarily (STARLINK-6064) on a public database since some weeks
> now and it keeps at around 360km altitude. That is much lower than
> 500-or-so usual. Maybe it is that lower altitude that permits a
> higher performance (lower latencies).
>
>
> Pretty neat!
>
>
> (there are other sats even lower, but not sure whether they're there
> in error or on their way up).
>
>
> this was really good:
> https://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/starlink_structure.pdf
> <https://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/starlink_structure.pdf>
The
>
paper is interesting. The authors built a system to listen to
starlink. That is a valuable effort.
It would be interesting to know in a public way what are precisely the
freqs used by starlink DISHYs.
This paper seems to be saying it is listening on: 10.7–11.7 GHz (the
lower band) and 11.7–12.75 GHz (the upper band).
However, this other paper from ETSI, cited on this email list, seems to
be saying: Receive (space-to-Earth) 10,70 GHz to 12,75 GHz, Transmit
(Earth-to-space) 14,0 GHz to 14,50 GHz. Remark the differences between
the two.
https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/303900_303999/303981/01.02.00_30/en_303981v010200v.pdf
I am not sure which of the two to trust, should only one be the right
one, or both.
It could be, for example, that the UT authors listen to something, hear
something, but not sure whether that is the starlink they hear. It
could be too that the ETSI document being respected by starlink is just
a supposition.
Maybe an additional, more authoritative, source of info is to list out
the freqs reserved by starlink at FCC and other regulators. Maybe the
DISHY and the user manual also has some labels telling precisely which
are the frequencies.
It is not clear to me whether a freq allocated by FCC in USA for
starlink is also allocated in Europe.
There are a number of freqs proposed for allocation in Europe for
constellations, yet they differ even between two EU countries, so.
Alex
>
> Getting more correlated results from two or more stations in the same
> cell would help.
>
>
> Alex
>
>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca
>>> <mailto:Pan@uvic.ca>> Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:02 PM
>>> Subject: starlink To: dave.taht@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com>
> <dave.taht@gmail.com <mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Dave: thanks for your libreqos work. did you see
>>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863
> <https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863> ? cheers. -j
>>> -- J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA,
> Web.UVic.CA/~pan <http://Web.UVic.CA/~pan>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg>
>>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing
> list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> <mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>
>
>
>
> -- Oct 30:
> https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html
>
> <https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html>
>
>
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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2023-08-17 14:47 ` [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network Dave Taht
2023-08-17 16:42 ` Dave Taht
2023-09-15 10:58 ` Alexandre Petrescu
2023-09-15 17:44 ` David Lang
2023-09-15 18:03 ` Dave Taht
2023-09-21 12:26 ` Alexandre Petrescu
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