From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.ausics.net (mail.ausics.net [IPv6:2403:580a:1f3d::9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F13A3B29D for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2023 21:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.ausics.net (valhalla.ausics.net [10.10.0.10]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.ausics.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EC8D7200095 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2023 11:33:09 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ausics.net; s=dkim1; t=1695432790; bh=VPYPcO586PDACInX8kRr9uUp20m6UJN1XOHexoTcdVs=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=kOtYiuzzHwhkKKa8oNrO97YF2PiKa9eWmKBGymuyBIbP1aGv6IfAmRNt6iAfHA8N9 a9TJcXIjDaW1iCU3H4HIBKDSxdBcVL1sAt0fhITcg6nTWm/5ew2qcOuARHLu2T9adB rGuX++p9OfbQZScLRc4RURZkS2xcVj5BGE60WBsUkCtTZSI9cN9YtLnigJUm3062tX buVsoedHzoH/y0blNdZr3qXdYYfOtL4B33OT/Jt7KGKXC/9TFjhCsbPCZTGH4E9Xrh Jty5I9U8biWA2TNe59iJBGp3epvS2iP4McYUPrqLjjH4hA1slVDhGiWEgwTlrZxpQA bFuCBgnCXLCjg== Received: from RK/NsjofeTdql6/4wPkjY05zE/uwEXYKiMNIEmrqnAU= (JzU3bOuG/sjzow25/w0b786dDzviPbAK) by mail.ausics.net with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Sat, 23 Sep 2023 11:33:09 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 11:33:09 +1000 From: Noel Butler To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: References: <9d96e8d6-8a40-4353-b7a3-49881742f1a7@auckland.ac.nz> User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail Message-ID: X-Sender: noel.butler@ausics.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_1b04eb67fb73ea01111d71bbc564f6be" Subject: Re: [Starlink] APNIC56 last week X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 01:33:13 -0000 --=_1b04eb67fb73ea01111d71bbc564f6be Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 20/09/2023 11:13, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote: > As vs Geoffs presentation on QUIC eating the universe in terms of > traffic volume, and the world becoming a giant content distribution > network, I still hold, that the internet is a communications network, > and that despite content moving ever closer to the edges, more private > content, and connecting people to people, and vpns to corporations, > will remain an important use case. Ssh as one example, still holds the > underpinnings of the network together, and is very low traffic volume, > and there is no such thing as a "voip caching server". Also, big > providers of replicated content, such as steam, are experimenting with > bittorrent-like techniques again. QUIC makes torrent extremely feasible > once again. Despite my high level of respect for Geoff, he, and others like him, often talk things up to push things their way of thinking, we only need look at the FUD they came out with in mid 90's about IPv4's imminent demise giving it three to five years before depletion, and here we are 30 years later and it is still the most dominant transport protocol by a long long mile despite allegedly running out only a few years ago and not in early 2000's as they tried to claim. (Even today there are still reserve stocks on /24's for newbies from some regions, and the bigger networks have years of stockpiled addresses in reserve). It's also like the local water board here who last week came out saying a whopping 70% of people surveyed said they'd drink recycled water, of course it was the local water board that conducted this alleged survey, because >90% of the more independent polling shows a totally different story. "Ohh, everybody's doing it" "must be safe" "we should do it" ... nah... TCP isn't going anywhere, nor is UDP, not in my lifetime anyway :) Cheers --=_1b04eb67fb73ea01111d71bbc564f6be Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

On 20/09/2023 11:13, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:

 

As vs Geoffs presentation on QUIC eating the universe in ter= ms of traffic volume, and the world becoming a giant content distribution n= etwork, I still hold, that the internet is a communications network, and th= at despite content moving ever closer to the edges, more private content, a= nd connecting people to people, and vpns to corporations, will remain an im= portant use case. Ssh as one example, still holds the underpinnings of the = network together, and is very low traffic volume, and there is no such thin= g as a "voip caching server". Also, big providers of replicated content, su= ch as steam, are experimenting with bittorrent-like techniques again. QUIC = makes torrent extremely feasible once again. 


Despite my high level of respect for Geoff, he, and others like him, oft= en talk things up to push things their way of thinking, we only need look a= t the FUD they came out with in mid 90's about IPv4's imminent demise givin= g it three to five years before depletion, and here we are 30 years later a= nd it is still the most dominant transport protocol by a long long mile des= pite allegedly  running out only a few years ago and not in early= 2000's as they tried to claim. (Even today there are still reserve st= ocks on /24's for newbies from some regions, and the bigger networks have y= ears of stockpiled addresses in reserve).

It's also like the local water board here who last week came out saying = a whopping 70% of people surveyed said they'd drink recycled water, of cour= se it was the local water board that conducted this alleged survey, because= >90% of the more independent polling shows a totally different story.

"Ohh, everybody's doing it"  "must be safe" "we should do it"  = ;... nah... TCP isn't going anywhere, nor is UDP, not in my lifetime anyway= :)

Cheers


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