From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from vsmx001.dclux.xion.oxcs.net (vsmx001.dclux.xion.oxcs.net [185.74.65.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 014903B2A4 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2022 03:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from proxy-2.proxy.oxio.ns.xion.oxcs.net (proxy-2.proxy.oxio.ns.xion.oxcs.net [83.61.18.4]) by mx-out.dclux.xion.oxcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B4D528C04C7 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2022 07:05:36 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dclux.xion.oxcs.net; s=mail1; t=1662015937; bh=qhMpxOAdaeD6VLjDPFQorJkkVH2c8Z3USmNHJfnJ2w0=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=OaaFIzVB9mPjTXBTBvYU5xpAdsdWhH83E3tVlXsejtduTb/sw7ufz0+o6T1zM2fc+ VqxhXNb5j85ztoUjYH4v5kDUWqG6LbNRED8Ozj2HwJ5+mzPsuwFk88qHwq8bUFt+L/ 2s4sImLIjASF5Q2leXr8QALAj0W4+wAs6PDLaUaYgRE72MAJyAJIJbjoZiVq+S/AEc bEWxH1Nh8xDJdhbXeeZjLlE4Jx5xnaQy+fHJtbvAHe4W0NFmfO49ARuyRTeDM31Z6e 6jbqdVLL3qagBQ8vcZYb48rAcrKTLSlLp0nz7aHnnpKGe/UqI1g54nEPB2XWdzEcWv Vge0s9DFgNOoA== Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 09:05:29 +0200 From: Mike Puchol To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <1661975488.138231368@apps.rackspace.com> <7q848925-o6qn-1934-n4s9-n493n9sp9op9@ynat.uz> <1661980642.127124118@apps.rackspace.com> X-Readdle-Message-ID: dc5ac6b7-8270-48c1-b76e-4587a1ef0f9c@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="631059be_e0bb885_2eb" X-VadeSecure-Status: LEGIT X-VADE-STATUS: LEGIT Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink "beam spread" X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2022 07:05:39 -0000 --631059be_e0bb885_2eb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline The primary reason for -not- offering service in any given country is, pr= imarily, regulatory (see the South Africa case). Once they > I'm not going to reason from =22intersatellite=22 routing being operati= onal until they offer it in operation. It's feasible, sort of. Laser beam= aiming is quite different from phased array beam steering, and though th= ey may have tested it between two satellites, that makes it a =22link tec= hnology=22 not a network. (you can steer a laser beam by moving lightweig= ht mirrors, I know. But tracking isn't so easy when both satellites are m= oving relative to each other - it seems like way beyond the technology ba= se that Starlink has put in its satellites so far. But who knows. We operate several of these in Kenya:=C2=A0https://x.company/projects/taa= ra They offer 20 Gbps at distances of 20km, and they operate under considera= bly more vibration, motion, and scintillation than you have in space. The= y have no issue keeping track of each other once initial acquisition is m= ade. SpaceX launched 10 satellites into polar orbit in Jan 2021, which it= used to test and characterize the ISL optical heads - you could see them= positioning the satellites in configurations to test side-looking (thus = cross-plane), and at different altitudes (cross-shell), and even parallel= links to characterize hardware differences (we did this with ours in Ken= ya too). It was fascinating to watch. I=E2=80=99m quite certain the least= problem for Starlink (unless they made major boo-boos in hardware or sof= tware) is acquisition and tracking. A very good book (but not cheap) on the topic is =22=46ree Space Optical = Communication=E2=80=9D by Hemani Kaushal. > As far as =22intersatellite=22 routing being out there soon, well, ther= e's no evidence it's happening soon. There is circumstantial evidence from a user in Nigeria that was getting = service and exiting via London, there is no evidence that any of the gate= ways in Nigeria are operational, so ISL could have played a role:=C2=A0ht= tps://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/wwg0nc/starlink=5Fspeed=5Ftest=5F= in=5Fnigeria/ Best, Mike On Aug 31, 2022, 23:33 +0200, David Lang via Starlink , wrote: > On Wed, 31 Aug 2022, David P. Reed wrote: > > > What's interesting to me is that their coverage map definitely doesn'= t cover > > Africa, South America, Cuba, large parts of Asia, and it isn't planne= d - if > > they had =22mesh routing=22 working among satellites, those would be = easy. But > > instead, they seem to be focused on the satellite one-bounce architec= ture > > (what the satellite industry calls =22bent-pipe=22 however it is done= ). > > The countries covered in the coverage map seems to be as much or more r= estricted > by regulations as anything technical. > > David Lang > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > Starlink mailing list > Starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink --631059be_e0bb885_2eb Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
The primary reason for -not- offering service in an= y given country is, primarily, regulatory (see the South Africa case). On= ce they&=23160;
I'm not going to reason from =22intersatellite=22 routing being operatio= nal until they offer it in operation. It's feasible, sort of. Laser beam = aiming is quite different from phased array beam steering, and though the= y may have tested it between two satellites, that makes it a =22link tech= nology=22 not a network. (you can steer a laser beam by moving lightweigh= t mirrors, I know. But tracking isn't so easy when both satellites are mo= ving relative to each other - it seems like way beyond the technology bas= e that Starlink has put in its satellites so far. But who knows.

We operate several of these in Kenya:&=23160;https://x.company/projects/t= aara

They offer 20 Gbps at distances of 20km, and they operate under considera= bly more vibration, motion, and scintillation than you have in space. The= y have no issue keeping track of each other once initial acquisition is m= ade. SpaceX launched 10 satellites into polar orbit in Jan 2021, which it= used to test and characterize the ISL optical heads - you could see them= positioning the satellites in configurations to test side-looking (thus = cross-plane), and at different altitudes (cross-shell), and even parallel= links to characterize hardware differences (we did this with ours in Ken= ya too). It was fascinating to watch. I=E2=80=99m quite certain the least= problem for Starlink (unless they made major boo-boos in hardware or sof= tware) is acquisition and tracking.

A very good book (but not cheap) on the topic is =22=46ree Space Optical = Communication=E2=80=9D by Hemani Kaushal.
As far as =22intersatellite=22 routing being out there soon, well, there= 's no evidence it's happening soon.

There is circumstantial evidence from a user in Nigeria that was getting = service and exiting via London, there is no evidence that any of the gate= ways in Nigeria are operational, so ISL could have played a role:&=23160;= https://www.reddi= t.com/r/Starlink/comments/wwg0nc/starlink=5Fspeed=5Ftest=5Fin=5Fnigeria/<= /a>

Best,

Mike
On Aug 31, 2022, 23:33 +0200, David= Lang via Starlink <starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net>, wrote:
=
On Wed, 31 Aug 2022, David P. Reed wrote:

What's interesting to me is that their cove= rage map definitely doesn't cover
Africa, South America, Cuba, large parts of Asia, and it isn't planned - = if
they had =22mesh routing=22 working among satellites, those would be easy= . But
instead, they seem to be focused on the satellite one-bounce architecture=
(what the satellite industry calls =22bent-pipe=22 however it is done).

The countries covered in the coverage map seems to be as much or more res= tricted
by regulations as anything technical.

David Lang
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
Starlink mailing list
Starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
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