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Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 21:02:24 -0000 --------------kdx0OxeP71npXzf1x6muYB6d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I had a quick look. The most important bit of information I was looking for is on page 7, and it's not explicitly mentioned despite its importance - rather it's delivered on the side of the figures: the latitude of the measurements. Ballpark 65 deg north. That puts the measurements beyond the range of the bulk of the Starlink shells at 43, 53, and 53.2 degrees inclination, leaving only the 70 and 97.6 deg inclination shells within view. Why does this matter? Two reasons: 1. A location at 65 deg north sees on average around 8 qualifying satellites at any time - those are satellites that are at least 25 deg above the horizon (so their beams don't get into terrestrial microwave link receivers). That compares to over 40 qualifying satellites should you find yourself luck to live between 40 and 45 deg north, and over 20 at the Equator (even keeping GSO protection into account). 2. The qualifying satellites you see north of about 60 deg are still >90% version 1.5's. They have lasers for backhaul but a comparatively small number of Ku band beams for downlink to Dishy. South of 40 degrees, almost half the qualifying satellites you're going to encounter are from the version 2 series, which have a lot more beams. These beams are also higher capacity ones. Why does the number of qualifying satellites and beams matter? Basically, if you add up all beams on all satellites within view, you get the pool of beams that Starlink can pick from to serve your Dishy. More beams in total = more options = bigger cake = bigger slice of capacity for your Dishy. Now how big a slice of the cake you can get depends not only on the satellite mix in view, but also on how many other user terminals in your immediate (cell) and wider (nearby cells) in your neighbourhood want to access that capacity cake. This depends a lot on population density and on what the competing terrestrial connectivity options are. In a place with low population density, fibre to almost everywhere and a good 4G and 5G coverage, all at good prices, there won't be a lot of competing users for the cake. The Oulu area in Finland, where they took the measurements, appears to be in that category, mostly. The paper doesn't discuss these determinants of performance, however. On 28/02/2025 4:04 am, Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink wrote: > Hi Craig, > No it is not my paper. > It has interesting results that I would like others to see and provide > feedback on. > > Hesham > > On Thu, Feb 27, 2025, 6:36 AM Craig Polk wrote: > > Hesham, > > Is this your paper? Are you submitting it for the WG to review as > a possible INGR Topic article? > > Best regards, > Craig > > ---- > Craig Polk, MSEE, MBA > Program Manager > Future Networks Tech Community | futurenetworks.ieee.org > > 3 Park Avenue, 17th Floor, New York, NY 10016 > > Office: +1 > > 212-705-8926 | Mobile: +1 908-255-6568 > Email: c.polk@comsoc.org > Future Networks World Forum | https://fnwf.ieee.org/ > Connecting the Unconnected | https://ctu.ieee.org/ > > On Thu, Feb 27, 2025, 12:01 AM Hesham ElBakoury > wrote: > > This paper [1] This paper evaluates the Flat High Performance > (FHP) terminal's performance in Finland, Northern Europe. > > *_Abstract_* > "Starlink has introduced the Flat High Performance (FHP) > terminal, specifically designed to support the vehicles and > the vessels in motion as well as the high-demand stationary > users. The research on FHP terminal throughput analysis > remains limited, only a few existing studies evaluate FHP, > focusing on the limited parameters and scenarios. This paper > evaluates the FHP terminal's performance in Finland, Northern > Europe. We examine round-trip time (RTT), uplink, and downlink > throughput for both stationary and in-motion use. We measure > network efficiency across six geographically diverse servers > and get insights of network routing strategies. Our results > show that Starlink provides high-speed, low-RTT connectivity, > however, the throughput experiences fluctuations with slight > degradation when in motion. Additionally, we compare Starlink > and terrestrial network RTT and possible routing paths." > > Hesham > [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2502.15552 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the 5GRM-SATELLITE list, click the > following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=5GRM-SATELLITE&A=1 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink -- **************************************************************** Dr. Ulrich Speidel School of Computer Science Room 303S.594 (City Campus) The University of Auckland u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ **************************************************************** --------------kdx0OxeP71npXzf1x6muYB6d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I had a quick look. 

The most important bit of information I was looking for is on page 7, and it's not explicitly mentioned despite its importance - rather it's delivered on the side of the figures: the latitude of the measurements. Ballpark 65 deg north. That puts the measurements beyond the range of the bulk of the Starlink shells at 43, 53, and 53.2 degrees inclination, leaving only the 70 and 97.6 deg inclination shells within view.

Why does this matter? Two reasons: 

  1. A location at 65 deg north sees on average around 8 qualifying satellites at any time - those are satellites that are at least 25 deg above the horizon (so their beams don't get into terrestrial microwave link receivers). That compares to over 40 qualifying satellites should you find yourself luck to live between 40 and 45 deg north, and over 20 at the Equator (even keeping GSO protection into account).
  2. The qualifying satellites you see north of about 60 deg are still >90% version 1.5's. They have lasers for backhaul but a comparatively small number of Ku band beams for downlink to Dishy. South of 40 degrees, almost half the qualifying satellites you're going to encounter are from the version 2 series, which have a lot more beams. These beams are also higher capacity ones.

Why does the number of qualifying satellites and beams matter? Basically, if you add up all beams on all satellites within view, you get the pool of beams that Starlink can pick from to serve your Dishy. More beams in total = more options = bigger cake = bigger slice of capacity for your Dishy.

Now how big a slice of the cake you can get depends not only on the satellite mix in view, but also on how many other user terminals in your immediate (cell) and wider (nearby cells) in your neighbourhood want to access that capacity cake. This depends a lot on population density and on what the competing terrestrial connectivity options are. In a place with low population density, fibre to almost everywhere and a good 4G and 5G coverage, all at good prices, there won't be a lot of competing users for the cake. The Oulu area in Finland, where they took the measurements, appears to be in that category, mostly. The paper doesn't discuss these determinants of performance, however.

On 28/02/2025 4:04 am, Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink wrote:
Hi Craig,
No it is not my paper.
It has interesting results that I would like others to see and provide feedback on.

Hesham

On Thu, Feb 27, 2025, 6:36 AM Craig Polk <c.polk@comsoc.org> wrote:
Hesham,

Is this your paper? Are you submitting it for the WG to review as a possible INGR Topic article?

Best regards,
Craig

----
Craig Polk, MSEE, MBA
Program Manager
Future Networks Tech Community | futurenetworks.ieee.org
3 Park Avenue, 17th Floor, New York, NY 10016 
Office: +1 212-705-8926 | Mobile: +1 908-255-6568
Email: c.polk@comsoc.org
Future Networks World Forum | https://fnwf.ieee.org/
Connecting the Unconnected | https://ctu.ieee.org/

On Thu, Feb 27, 2025, 12:01 AM Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com> wrote:
This paper [1] This paper evaluates the Flat High Performance (FHP) terminal's performance in Finland, Northern Europe.

Abstract
"Starlink has introduced the Flat High Performance (FHP) terminal, specifically designed to support the vehicles and the vessels in motion as well as the high-demand stationary users. The research on FHP terminal throughput analysis remains limited, only a few existing studies evaluate FHP, focusing on the limited parameters and scenarios. This paper evaluates the FHP terminal's performance in Finland, Northern Europe. We examine round-trip time (RTT), uplink, and downlink throughput for both stationary and in-motion use. We measure network efficiency across six geographically diverse servers and get insights of network routing strategies. Our results show that Starlink provides high-speed, low-RTT connectivity, however, the throughput experiences fluctuations with slight degradation when in motion. Additionally, we compare Starlink and terrestrial network RTT and possible routing paths."

Hesham

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Dr. Ulrich Speidel

School of Computer Science

Room 303S.594 (City Campus)

The University of Auckland
u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz 
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
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