Re: [Starlink] Main hurdles against the Integration of Satellites and Terrestial Networks

[David Lang <david@lang.hm>]

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On Mon, 18 Sep 2023, Hesham ElBakoury wrote:

> Given the discussions in this email thread, what IETF should standardize in
> priority order  for the integrated NTN terrestrial networks?

I don't see why you need to do any particular standardization to integrate 
things like starlink into terrestrial networks.

Just like IETF didn't need to standardize ethernet/token ring/arcnet/modems to 
make them compatible with each other. They all talk IP, and a computer with a 
link to each of them can serve as a gateway (and this included proprietary 
modems that were not compatible with anything else, the network didn't care)

Starlink is just another IP path, all the tools that you use with any other ISP 
work on that path (or are restricted like many other consumer ISPs with dynamic 
addressing, no inbound connections, no BGP peering, etc. No reason that the 
those couldn't work, SpaceX just opts not to support them on consumer dishes)

I'll turn the question back to you, what is the problem that you think is there 
that needs to be solved?

David Lang

> Thanks,
> Hesham
>
> On Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 12:59 PM David Lang via Starlink <
> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>> it's very clear that there is a computer in the dishy that you are talking
>> to.
>> You get the network connection while the dishy is not connected to the
>> satellites (there's even a status page and controls, stowing and unstowing
>> for
>> example)
>>
>> I think we've seen that the dishy is running linux (I know the routers run
>> an
>> old openwrt), but I don't remember the details of the dishy software.
>>
>> David Lang
>>
>>   On Sun, 17 Sep 2023, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 19:21:50 +0200
>>> From: Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
>>> Reply-To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
>>> To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Main hurdles against the Integration of
>> Satellites and
>>>      Terrestial Networks
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 16/09/2023 à 01:32, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink a écrit :
>>>> On 16/09/2023 5:52 am, David Lang wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition to that Ulrich says, the dishy is a full computer, it's
>>>>> output is ethernet/IP and with some adapters or cable changes, you
>>>>> can plug it directly into a router.
>>>>
>>>> We've done that with the Yaosheng PoE Dishy adapter - actually plugged
>>>> a DHCP client straight in - and it "works" but with a noticeably
>>>> higher rate of disconnects.
>>>
>>> It is good to know one can plug a DHCP client into the Ethernet of the
>>> DISHY and receive DHCP replies.
>>>
>>> But that would be only a lead into what kind of DHCPv4 is supported, or
>> not.
>>>
>>> I would ask to know whether the DHCP server runs on the DISHY, or
>>> whether it is on the ground network of starlink, i.e. the reply to DHCP
>>> request comes after 50ms, or after 500microseconds (timestamp difference
>>> can be seen in the wireshark run on that Ethernet).
>>>
>>> This (DHCP server daemon on dishy or on ground segment) has an impact of
>>> how IPv6  can be, or is, made to work.
>>>
>>> This kind of behaviour of DHCP - basically asking who allocates an
>>> address - has seen a continous evolution in 3GPP cellular networks since
>>> they appeared.  Nowadays the DHCP behaviour is very complex in a 3GPP
>>> network; even in a typical smartphone there are intricacies about where
>>> and how the DHCP client and server works. With it comes the problem of
>>> /64 in cellular networks (which some dont call a problem, but I do).
>>>
>>> So, it would be interesting to see whether starlink has the same /64
>>> problem as 3GPP has, or is free of it (simply put: can I connect several
>>> Ethernet subnets in my home to starlink, in native IPv6 that is, or
>> not?).
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
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