[Starlink] Starlink terminal detector

[Starlink] Starlink terminal detector

[Dave Taht]

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Starlink detector boasted about... 10km range.


https://www.notebookcheck.net/Starlink-terminal-detection-radar-to-enter-testing-in-Ukraine-as-per-Russian-military-blogger.675439.0.html

I would have figured on starlinks less further front, combined with non los
radios and ptp wifi being viable. Targeting every wifi transmitter is a low
percentage play, and adhoc modes for directional wifi with synthetic mac's
harder to distinguish ...

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Re: [Starlink] Starlink terminal detector

[Oleg Kutkov]

Actually, there is nothing special.

You can capture WiFi beacons and get a BSSID with a good directional 
antenna. 10 - 15 km it's not a problem.

They are filtering Starlink router BSSID to figure out that somewhere 
there is Starlink.
Starlink WiFi router uses Tibro corp. (74:24: prefix).
On 12/19/22 04:41, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:
> Starlink detector boasted about... 10km range.
>
>
> https://www.notebookcheck.net/Starlink-terminal-detection-radar-to-enter-testing-in-Ukraine-as-per-Russian-military-blogger.675439.0.html 
>
>
> I would have figured on starlinks less further front, combined with 
> non los radios and ptp wifi being viable. Targeting every wifi 
> transmitter is a low percentage play, and adhoc modes for directional 
> wifi with synthetic mac's harder to distinguish ...
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

-- 
Best regards,
Oleg Kutkov

Re: [Starlink] Starlink terminal detector

[Oleg Kutkov]

 From the beginning, the general rule is don't use Starlink WiFi. Or 
hide the router somewhere to reduce RF emissions.

We have developed a set of rules and recommendations about using a PoE 
injector or bypassing the Starlink router.
Unfortunately, a lot of people ignore safety.

But there are some countermeasures on the way.

On 12/19/22 05:03, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
> Actually, there is nothing special.
>
> You can capture WiFi beacons and get a BSSID with a good directional 
> antenna. 10 - 15 km it's not a problem.
>
> They are filtering Starlink router BSSID to figure out that somewhere 
> there is Starlink.
> Starlink WiFi router uses Tibro corp. (74:24: prefix).
> On 12/19/22 04:41, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:
>> Starlink detector boasted about... 10km range.
>>
>>
>> https://www.notebookcheck.net/Starlink-terminal-detection-radar-to-enter-testing-in-Ukraine-as-per-Russian-military-blogger.675439.0.html 
>>
>>
>> I would have figured on starlinks less further front, combined with 
>> non los radios and ptp wifi being viable. Targeting every wifi 
>> transmitter is a low percentage play, and adhoc modes for directional 
>> wifi with synthetic mac's harder to distinguish ...
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
-- 
Best regards,
Oleg Kutkov

Re: [Starlink] Starlink terminal detector

[David Lang]

and change the name of the starlink wifi so it doesn't stand out as much.

David Lang

On Mon, 19 Dec 2022, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:

> From the beginning, the general rule is don't use Starlink WiFi. Or 
> hide the router somewhere to reduce RF emissions.
>
> We have developed a set of rules and recommendations about using a PoE 
> injector or bypassing the Starlink router.
> Unfortunately, a lot of people ignore safety.
>
> But there are some countermeasures on the way.
>
> On 12/19/22 05:03, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
>> Actually, there is nothing special.
>>
>> You can capture WiFi beacons and get a BSSID with a good directional 
>> antenna. 10 - 15 km it's not a problem.
>>
>> They are filtering Starlink router BSSID to figure out that somewhere 
>> there is Starlink.
>> Starlink WiFi router uses Tibro corp. (74:24: prefix).
>> On 12/19/22 04:41, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:
>>> Starlink detector boasted about... 10km range.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
> https://www.notebookcheck.net/Starlink-terminal-detection-radar-to-enter-testing-in-Ukraine-as-per-Russian-military-blogger.675439.0.html 
>>>
>>>
>>> I would have figured on starlinks less further front, combined with 
>>> non los radios and ptp wifi being viable. Targeting every wifi 
>>> transmitter is a low percentage play, and adhoc modes for directional 
>>> wifi with synthetic mac's harder to distinguish ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Starlink mailing list
>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>
>

Re: [Starlink] Starlink terminal detector

[Eric]

Get a bunch of US$3 ESP8266 devices, set them up in AP mode with spoofed Starlink MACs and BSSIDs, power them with solar cells + old vape-pen batteries and spread them all over the place.  There's nothing like causing the other side to shoot $50k missiles at a $15 decoy.


------- Original Message -------
On Sunday, December 18th, 2022 at 20:49, David Lang via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:


> and change the name of the starlink wifi so it doesn't stand out as much.
> 
> David Lang
> 
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2022, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
> 
> > From the beginning, the general rule is don't use Starlink WiFi. Or
> > hide the router somewhere to reduce RF emissions.
> > 
> > We have developed a set of rules and recommendations about using a PoE
> > injector or bypassing the Starlink router.
> > Unfortunately, a lot of people ignore safety.
> > 
> > But there are some countermeasures on the way.
> > 
> > On 12/19/22 05:03, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
> > 
> > > Actually, there is nothing special.
> > > 
> > > You can capture WiFi beacons and get a BSSID with a good directional
> > > antenna. 10 - 15 km it's not a problem.
> > > 
> > > They are filtering Starlink router BSSID to figure out that somewhere
> > > there is Starlink.
> > > Starlink WiFi router uses Tibro corp. (74:24: prefix).
> > > On 12/19/22 04:41, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Starlink detector boasted about... 10km range.
> > 
> > https://www.notebookcheck.net/Starlink-terminal-detection-radar-to-enter-testing-in-Ukraine-as-per-Russian-military-blogger.675439.0.html
> > 
> > > > I would have figured on starlinks less further front, combined with
> > > > non los radios and ptp wifi being viable. Targeting every wifi
> > > > transmitter is a low percentage play, and adhoc modes for directional
> > > > wifi with synthetic mac's harder to distinguish ...
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Starlink mailing list
> > > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

Re: [Starlink] Starlink terminal detector

[Dave Taht]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 7:54 AM Eric via Starlink
<starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> Get a bunch of US$3 ESP8266 devices, set them up in AP mode with spoofed Starlink MACs and BSSIDs, power them with solar cells + old vape-pen batteries and spread them all over the place.  There's nothing like causing the other side to shoot $50k missiles at a $15 decoy.

Well, the difference in amount of traffic generated by an idle AP vs
one in use would be large, and the interference
caused by simulating traffic on the other APs a pita, but narrow
channels and a bunch of APs does thin the herd.

Meshy mode, at least adhoc, has fewer identifying signatures in the
packet header, making an "AP" less obvious.

>
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Sunday, December 18th, 2022 at 20:49, David Lang via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>
> > and change the name of the starlink wifi so it doesn't stand out as much.
> >
> > David Lang
> >
> > On Mon, 19 Dec 2022, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
> >
> > > From the beginning, the general rule is don't use Starlink WiFi. Or
> > > hide the router somewhere to reduce RF emissions.
> > >
> > > We have developed a set of rules and recommendations about using a PoE
> > > injector or bypassing the Starlink router.
> > > Unfortunately, a lot of people ignore safety.
> > >
> > > But there are some countermeasures on the way.
> > >
> > > On 12/19/22 05:03, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
> > >
> > > > Actually, there is nothing special.
> > > >
> > > > You can capture WiFi beacons and get a BSSID with a good directional
> > > > antenna. 10 - 15 km it's not a problem.
> > > >
> > > > They are filtering Starlink router BSSID to figure out that somewhere
> > > > there is Starlink.
> > > > Starlink WiFi router uses Tibro corp. (74:24: prefix).
> > > > On 12/19/22 04:41, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Starlink detector boasted about... 10km range.
> > >
> > > https://www.notebookcheck.net/Starlink-terminal-detection-radar-to-enter-testing-in-Ukraine-as-per-Russian-military-blogger.675439.0.html
> > >
> > > > > I would have figured on starlinks less further front, combined with
> > > > > non los radios and ptp wifi being viable. Targeting every wifi
> > > > > transmitter is a low percentage play, and adhoc modes for directional
> > > > > wifi with synthetic mac's harder to distinguish ...
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Starlink mailing list
> > > > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Starlink mailing list
> > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink



-- 
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC

Re: [Starlink] Starlink terminal detector

[Hayden Simon]

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I love how you think



HAYDEN SIMON
UBER GROUP LIMITED
MANAGING DIRECTOR - SUPREME OVERLORD
E: h@uber.nz
M: 021 0707 014
W: www.uber.nz
53 PORT ROAD | PO BOX 5083 | WHANGAREI | NEW ZEALAND
-----Original Message-----
From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> On Behalf Of Eric via Starlink
Sent: Tuesday, 20 December 2022 4:55 am
To: David Lang <david@lang.hm>
Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink terminal detector

Get a bunch of US$3 ESP8266 devices, set them up in AP mode with spoofed Starlink MACs and BSSIDs, power them with solar cells + old vape-pen batteries and spread them all over the place.  There's nothing like causing the other side to shoot $50k missiles at a $15 decoy.


------- Original Message -------
On Sunday, December 18th, 2022 at 20:49, David Lang via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:


> and change the name of the starlink wifi so it doesn't stand out as much.
>
> David Lang
>
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2022, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
>
> > From the beginning, the general rule is don't use Starlink WiFi. Or
> > hide the router somewhere to reduce RF emissions.
> >
> > We have developed a set of rules and recommendations about using a
> > PoE injector or bypassing the Starlink router.
> > Unfortunately, a lot of people ignore safety.
> >
> > But there are some countermeasures on the way.
> >
> > On 12/19/22 05:03, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
> >
> > > Actually, there is nothing special.
> > >
> > > You can capture WiFi beacons and get a BSSID with a good
> > > directional antenna. 10 - 15 km it's not a problem.
> > >
> > > They are filtering Starlink router BSSID to figure out that
> > > somewhere there is Starlink.
> > > Starlink WiFi router uses Tibro corp. (74:24: prefix).
> > > On 12/19/22 04:41, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:
> > >
> > > > Starlink detector boasted about... 10km range.
> >
> > https://www.notebookcheck.net/Starlink-terminal-detection-radar-to-e
> > nter-testing-in-Ukraine-as-per-Russian-military-blogger.675439.0.htm
> > l
> >
> > > > I would have figured on starlinks less further front, combined
> > > > with non los radios and ptp wifi being viable. Targeting every
> > > > wifi transmitter is a low percentage play, and adhoc modes for
> > > > directional wifi with synthetic mac's harder to distinguish ...
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Starlink mailing list
> > > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

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Re: [Starlink] Starlink terminal detector

[Ulrich Speidel]

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Greetings from Hiroshima where, on August 6, 1945, at this time in the 
morning, I would've had a couple of minutes left to live where I am 
sitting and typing this now. Makes one think. Neither Russia nor Ukraine 
respect the right to conscientious objection. Seeing my colleagues at 
work who are from mixed Russian and Ukrainian families makes it hit home 
daily what war means to them and their loved ones. Having to worry about 
a top student of mine whose Russian parents' business is affected by the 
war, and who may not be able to pay his international student fees next 
year, and may have to return home to face conscription and the meat 
grinder. He could be one of those who we see gleeful YouTube videos of, 
having bombs dropped on them from drones, with no shelter, wriggling in 
pain as they take their last breath. Makes me forget the price tag of 
the missiles for the moment.

That said, the Starlink WiFi router is of course only one RF source a 
detector might want to zero in on, and as it's been pointed out it's 
easily camouflaged or spoofed on the RF side of things. The satcom 
signal off the Dishy is another, and it's not as easily spoofed. 
However, Dishy will point itself where it can see most relay-capable 
satellites, which in Ukraine will be in a western or northwestern 
direction. Which means pointing the signal away from Russia and the 
detectors in most cases. Russians are by and large clever folks (never 
judge a people by its autocratic leaders) and are probably well aware of 
this. So we can book that military blog entry under fog of war 
misinformation.

On 20/12/2022 5:07 am, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 7:54 AM Eric via Starlink
> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >
> > Get a bunch of US$3 ESP8266 devices, set them up in AP mode with 
> spoofed Starlink MACs and BSSIDs, power them with solar cells + old 
> vape-pen batteries and spread them all over the place. There's nothing 
> like causing the other side to shoot $50k missiles at a $15 decoy.
>
> Well, the difference in amount of traffic generated by an idle AP vs
> one in use would be large, and the interference
> caused by simulating traffic on the other APs a pita, but narrow
> channels and a bunch of APs does thin the herd.
>
> Meshy mode, at least adhoc, has fewer identifying signatures in the
> packet header, making an "AP" less obvious.
>
> >
> > ------- Original Message -------
> > On Sunday, December 18th, 2022 at 20:49, David Lang via Starlink 
> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > and change the name of the starlink wifi so it doesn't stand out 
> as much.
> > >
> > > David Lang
> > >
> > > On Mon, 19 Dec 2022, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
> > >
> > > > From the beginning, the general rule is don't use Starlink WiFi. Or
> > > > hide the router somewhere to reduce RF emissions.
> > > >
> > > > We have developed a set of rules and recommendations about using 
> a PoE
> > > > injector or bypassing the Starlink router.
> > > > Unfortunately, a lot of people ignore safety.
> > > >
> > > > But there are some countermeasures on the way.
> > > >
> > > > On 12/19/22 05:03, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Actually, there is nothing special.
> > > > >
> > > > > You can capture WiFi beacons and get a BSSID with a good 
> directional
> > > > > antenna. 10 - 15 km it's not a problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > They are filtering Starlink router BSSID to figure out that 
> somewhere
> > > > > there is Starlink.
> > > > > Starlink WiFi router uses Tibro corp. (74:24: prefix).
> > > > > On 12/19/22 04:41, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Starlink detector boasted about... 10km range.
> > > >
> > > > 
> https://www.notebookcheck.net/Starlink-terminal-detection-radar-to-enter-testing-in-Ukraine-as-per-Russian-military-blogger.675439.0.html 
> <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Starlink-terminal-detection-radar-to-enter-testing-in-Ukraine-as-per-Russian-military-blogger.675439.0.html>
> > > >
> > > > > > I would have figured on starlinks less further front, 
> combined with
> > > > > > non los radios and ptp wifi being viable. Targeting every wifi
> > > > > > transmitter is a low percentage play, and adhoc modes for 
> directional
> > > > > > wifi with synthetic mac's harder to distinguish ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Starlink mailing list
> > > > > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > > > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink 
> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Starlink mailing list
> > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink 
> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Starlink mailing list
> > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink 
> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>
>
>
>
> -- 
> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz>
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink 
> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>

-- 
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel

School of Computer Science

Room 303S.594 (City Campus)

The University of Auckland
u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz  
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
****************************************************************



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Re: [Starlink] Starlink terminal detector

[Oleg Kutkov]

Greeting from Kyiv, where I'm sitting without electricity and proper 
internet connectivity. Thanks to dozens of Russian missiles and drone 
attacks very last night.

No one was forcing them to attack our country and destroy our cities and 
energy infrastructure. That's what they are doing right now, in the 
middle of the winter. They killed, raped, and kidnapped thousands of 
civilians. Recently discovered children torture rooms on liberated 
territories. It's pure terrorism.

So they have a really simple choice - do something with their crazy 
autocrat or come here as occupants and suffer in the mud and cold doing 
military crimes.

At the same time, we have no choice here in Ukraine. We must protect our 
lives and country. Sometimes it feels like we are solving their problem 
with their government. Sadly, it takes so many lives...
The main difference is that in Ukraine, no one is hunting for conscripts 
with the police. And are there different legal ways to avoid conscription.
We have a lot of military and civilian volunteers. Everyone is trying to 
do something to help and save the future.


Sorry for off-topic.

---

The Dishy is easy to camouflage. And there is no easy way to detect 
directional Ku band transmission. We made different kinds of measurements.
So it is up to WiFi. The solution is currently rolling out on Starlink 
routers.

On 12/20/22 01:34, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink wrote:
>
> Greetings from Hiroshima where, on August 6, 1945, at this time in the 
> morning, I would've had a couple of minutes left to live where I am 
> sitting and typing this now. Makes one think. Neither Russia nor 
> Ukraine respect the right to conscientious objection. Seeing my 
> colleagues at work who are from mixed Russian and Ukrainian families 
> makes it hit home daily what war means to them and their loved ones. 
> Having to worry about a top student of mine whose Russian parents' 
> business is affected by the war, and who may not be able to pay his 
> international student fees next year, and may have to return home to 
> face conscription and the meat grinder. He could be one of those who 
> we see gleeful YouTube videos of, having bombs dropped on them from 
> drones, with no shelter, wriggling in pain as they take their last 
> breath. Makes me forget the price tag of the missiles for the moment.
>
> That said, the Starlink WiFi router is of course only one RF source a 
> detector might want to zero in on, and as it's been pointed out it's 
> easily camouflaged or spoofed on the RF side of things. The satcom 
> signal off the Dishy is another, and it's not as easily spoofed. 
> However, Dishy will point itself where it can see most relay-capable 
> satellites, which in Ukraine will be in a western or northwestern 
> direction. Which means pointing the signal away from Russia and the 
> detectors in most cases. Russians are by and large clever folks (never 
> judge a people by its autocratic leaders) and are probably well aware 
> of this. So we can book that military blog entry under fog of war 
> misinformation.
>
> On 20/12/2022 5:07 am, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:
>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 7:54 AM Eric via Starlink
>> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Get a bunch of US$3 ESP8266 devices, set them up in AP mode with 
>> spoofed Starlink MACs and BSSIDs, power them with solar cells + old 
>> vape-pen batteries and spread them all over the place. There's 
>> nothing like causing the other side to shoot $50k missiles at a $15 
>> decoy.
>>
>> Well, the difference in amount of traffic generated by an idle AP vs
>> one in use would be large, and the interference
>> caused by simulating traffic on the other APs a pita, but narrow
>> channels and a bunch of APs does thin the herd.
>>
>> Meshy mode, at least adhoc, has fewer identifying signatures in the
>> packet header, making an "AP" less obvious.
>>
>> >
>> > ------- Original Message -------
>> > On Sunday, December 18th, 2022 at 20:49, David Lang via Starlink 
>> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > > and change the name of the starlink wifi so it doesn't stand out 
>> as much.
>> > >
>> > > David Lang
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, 19 Dec 2022, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > From the beginning, the general rule is don't use Starlink WiFi. Or
>> > > > hide the router somewhere to reduce RF emissions.
>> > > >
>> > > > We have developed a set of rules and recommendations about 
>> using a PoE
>> > > > injector or bypassing the Starlink router.
>> > > > Unfortunately, a lot of people ignore safety.
>> > > >
>> > > > But there are some countermeasures on the way.
>> > > >
>> > > > On 12/19/22 05:03, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Actually, there is nothing special.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > You can capture WiFi beacons and get a BSSID with a good 
>> directional
>> > > > > antenna. 10 - 15 km it's not a problem.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > They are filtering Starlink router BSSID to figure out that 
>> somewhere
>> > > > > there is Starlink.
>> > > > > Starlink WiFi router uses Tibro corp. (74:24: prefix).
>> > > > > On 12/19/22 04:41, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Starlink detector boasted about... 10km range.
>> > > >
>> > > > 
>> https://www.notebookcheck.net/Starlink-terminal-detection-radar-to-enter-testing-in-Ukraine-as-per-Russian-military-blogger.675439.0.html
>> > > >
>> > > > > > I would have figured on starlinks less further front, 
>> combined with
>> > > > > > non los radios and ptp wifi being viable. Targeting every wifi
>> > > > > > transmitter is a low percentage play, and adhoc modes for 
>> directional
>> > > > > > wifi with synthetic mac's harder to distinguish ...
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > Starlink mailing list
>> > > > > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > > > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Starlink mailing list
>> > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Starlink mailing list
>> > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> -- 
> ****************************************************************
> Dr. Ulrich Speidel
>
> School of Computer Science
>
> Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
>
> The University of Auckland
> u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz  
> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
> ****************************************************************
>
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-- 
Best regards,
Oleg Kutkov

Re: [Starlink] Starlink terminal detector

[Gary E. Miller]

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Yo Oleg!

Thanks for the update.  Our hearts go out to all of you there.

RGDS
GARY

On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 02:46:55 +0200
Oleg Kutkov via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> Greeting from Kyiv, where I'm sitting without electricity and proper 
> internet connectivity. Thanks to dozens of Russian missiles and drone 
> attacks very last night.
> 
> No one was forcing them to attack our country and destroy our cities
> and energy infrastructure. That's what they are doing right now, in
> the middle of the winter. They killed, raped, and kidnapped thousands
> of civilians. Recently discovered children torture rooms on liberated 
> territories. It's pure terrorism.
> 
> So they have a really simple choice - do something with their crazy 
> autocrat or come here as occupants and suffer in the mud and cold
> doing military crimes.
> 
> At the same time, we have no choice here in Ukraine. We must protect
> our lives and country. Sometimes it feels like we are solving their
> problem with their government. Sadly, it takes so many lives...
> The main difference is that in Ukraine, no one is hunting for
> conscripts with the police. And are there different legal ways to
> avoid conscription. We have a lot of military and civilian
> volunteers. Everyone is trying to do something to help and save the
> future.
> 
> 
> Sorry for off-topic.
> 
> ---
> 
> The Dishy is easy to camouflage. And there is no easy way to detect 
> directional Ku band transmission. We made different kinds of
> measurements. So it is up to WiFi. The solution is currently rolling
> out on Starlink routers.
> 
> On 12/20/22 01:34, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink wrote:
> >
> > Greetings from Hiroshima where, on August 6, 1945, at this time in
> > the morning, I would've had a couple of minutes left to live where
> > I am sitting and typing this now. Makes one think. Neither Russia
> > nor Ukraine respect the right to conscientious objection. Seeing my 
> > colleagues at work who are from mixed Russian and Ukrainian
> > families makes it hit home daily what war means to them and their
> > loved ones. Having to worry about a top student of mine whose
> > Russian parents' business is affected by the war, and who may not
> > be able to pay his international student fees next year, and may
> > have to return home to face conscription and the meat grinder. He
> > could be one of those who we see gleeful YouTube videos of, having
> > bombs dropped on them from drones, with no shelter, wriggling in
> > pain as they take their last breath. Makes me forget the price tag
> > of the missiles for the moment.
> >
> > That said, the Starlink WiFi router is of course only one RF source
> > a detector might want to zero in on, and as it's been pointed out
> > it's easily camouflaged or spoofed on the RF side of things. The
> > satcom signal off the Dishy is another, and it's not as easily
> > spoofed. However, Dishy will point itself where it can see most
> > relay-capable satellites, which in Ukraine will be in a western or
> > northwestern direction. Which means pointing the signal away from
> > Russia and the detectors in most cases. Russians are by and large
> > clever folks (never judge a people by its autocratic leaders) and
> > are probably well aware of this. So we can book that military blog
> > entry under fog of war misinformation.
> >
> > On 20/12/2022 5:07 am, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:  
> >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 7:54 AM Eric via Starlink
> >> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:  
> >> >
> >> > Get a bunch of US$3 ESP8266 devices, set them up in AP mode with
> >> >   
> >> spoofed Starlink MACs and BSSIDs, power them with solar cells +
> >> old vape-pen batteries and spread them all over the place. There's 
> >> nothing like causing the other side to shoot $50k missiles at a
> >> $15 decoy.
> >>
> >> Well, the difference in amount of traffic generated by an idle AP
> >> vs one in use would be large, and the interference
> >> caused by simulating traffic on the other APs a pita, but narrow
> >> channels and a bunch of APs does thin the herd.
> >>
> >> Meshy mode, at least adhoc, has fewer identifying signatures in the
> >> packet header, making an "AP" less obvious.
> >>  
> >> >
> >> > ------- Original Message -------
> >> > On Sunday, December 18th, 2022 at 20:49, David Lang via Starlink
> >> >   
> >> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:  
> >> >
> >> >  
> >> > > and change the name of the starlink wifi so it doesn't stand
> >> > > out   
> >> as much.  
> >> > >
> >> > > David Lang
> >> > >
> >> > > On Mon, 19 Dec 2022, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
> >> > >  
> >> > > > From the beginning, the general rule is don't use Starlink
> >> > > > WiFi. Or hide the router somewhere to reduce RF emissions.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > We have developed a set of rules and recommendations about   
> >> using a PoE  
> >> > > > injector or bypassing the Starlink router.
> >> > > > Unfortunately, a lot of people ignore safety.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > But there are some countermeasures on the way.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On 12/19/22 05:03, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:
> >> > > >  
> >> > > > > Actually, there is nothing special.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > You can capture WiFi beacons and get a BSSID with a good   
> >> directional  
> >> > > > > antenna. 10 - 15 km it's not a problem.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > They are filtering Starlink router BSSID to figure out
> >> > > > > that   
> >> somewhere  
> >> > > > > there is Starlink.
> >> > > > > Starlink WiFi router uses Tibro corp. (74:24: prefix).
> >> > > > > On 12/19/22 04:41, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:
> >> > > > >  
> >> > > > > > Starlink detector boasted about... 10km range.  
> >> > > >
> >> > > >   
> >> https://www.notebookcheck.net/Starlink-terminal-detection-radar-to-enter-testing-in-Ukraine-as-per-Russian-military-blogger.675439.0.html
> >>  
> >> > > >  
> >> > > > > > I would have figured on starlinks less further front,   
> >> combined with  
> >> > > > > > non los radios and ptp wifi being viable. Targeting
> >> > > > > > every wifi transmitter is a low percentage play, and
> >> > > > > > adhoc modes for   
> >> directional  
> >> > > > > > wifi with synthetic mac's harder to distinguish ...
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > > > Starlink mailing list
> >> > > > > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> > > > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink  
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Starlink mailing list
> >> > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink  
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Starlink mailing list
> >> > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink  
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
> >> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
> >> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Starlink mailing list
> >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink  
> > -- 
> > ****************************************************************
> > Dr. Ulrich Speidel
> >
> > School of Computer Science
> >
> > Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
> >
> > The University of Auckland
> > u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz  
> > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
> > ****************************************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Starlink mailing list
> > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink  
> 




RGDS
GARY
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
	gem@rellim.com  Tel:+1 541 382 8588

	    Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas?
    "If you can't measure it, you can't improve it." - Lord Kelvin

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