From: Neal Cardwell <ncardwell@google.com>
To: Stuart Cheshire <cheshire@apple.com>
Cc: bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.borsik@gmail.com>,
"Mohit P. Tahiliani" <tahiliani@nitk.edu.in>
Subject: [Bloat] Re: The hell has frozen: Latency mentioned at APNIC 62, during a keynote!
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2026 12:56:41 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CADVnQymA2wecUz5t3=56iuU6UjurY_V_iw90agtB2bXF-_JprA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <24DF2C83-5FB2-44FB-B69F-6BDA27F0191C@apple.com>
On Thu, Sep 17, 2026 at 11:24 AM Stuart Cheshire via Bloat <
bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> > On Sep 10, 2026, at 10:37, Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.borsik@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > "The scarce resource is not bandwidth, or compute. It is latency."
> >
> >
> https://conference.apnic.net/62/assets/presentation-files/93297823-389f-4ff6-ba5f-73cfe12a367b.pdf
> >
> > Incredible. Thanks to Mohit for catching this gem.
>
> Nice, but I would not express it that way.
>
> Calling latency a “scarce resource” sends the wrong message. It reinforces
> the incorrect idea that low-latency service is a rare commodity, in short
> supply, that can only be provided to the small privileged minority that can
> afford it. This is the wrong-headed thinking behind priorities, traffic
> classes, DiffServ, etc. People assume latency, like bandwidth, is a
> zero-sum game. (“Better latency for me means worse latency for you.”) The
> great insight of L4S is that latency is not a zero-sum game. *All* traffic
> can receive low latency, and that benefit is not counterbalanced by some
> corresponding degradation elsewhere. L4S with short queues is just
> universally better than tail-drop with long queues, and there is no hidden
> caveat or disclaimer on that statement.
>
> Instead of the word “scarce” I would use “important” or “valuable”.
>
> It is true that milliseconds are precious -- once wasted you can’t get
> them back, but there is no scarcity of them.
Well said.
Likewise, I would not call latency a "resource". The link is the resource.
Latency is a performance characteristic. Effective management of the
resource (with L4S or other schemes) can yield both low latency and high
throughput.
Calling latency a "resource" makes it sound like something that can be
built or purchased. One cannot build or purchase low latency. You can
purchase hardware that allows low latency, but you still have to deploy
protocols that know how to use the signals to achieve low latency and high
throughput.
So rather than saying: "The scarce resource is not bandwidth, or compute.
It is latency." ... perhaps: "The most important performance metric where
systems fall short today is not bandwidth, or compute. It is latency."
neal
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-09-17 19:57 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-09-10 17:37 [Bloat] The hell has frozen: Latency mentioned at APNIC 62, during a keynote! Frantisek Borsik
2026-09-17 18:24 ` [Bloat] " Stuart Cheshire
2026-09-17 19:56 ` Neal Cardwell [this message]
2026-09-17 21:14 ` Richard Scheffenegger
2026-09-18 0:16 ` Stuart Cheshire
[not found] <178969057349.1938.14005152589460246388@gauss>
2026-09-18 12:11 ` Rich Brown
2026-09-18 21:41 ` bob.mcmahon
2026-09-19 10:03 ` Sebastian Moeller
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://lists.bufferbloat.net/postorius/lists/bloat.lists.bufferbloat.net/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to='CADVnQymA2wecUz5t3=56iuU6UjurY_V_iw90agtB2bXF-_JprA@mail.gmail.com' \
--to=ncardwell@google.com \
--cc=bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net \
--cc=cheshire@apple.com \
--cc=frantisek.borsik@gmail.com \
--cc=tahiliani@nitk.edu.in \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox