[Cake] isp economics

[Pete Heist]

> On Jul 28, 2018, at 7:32 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Exactly. Many members, including myself, are limited by our CPE links during off hours, and by the backhaul during high traffic hours.
> 
> 3 items
> 
> 1) Co-locating some essential services (like netflix) might be of help.

That’s a good idea, will bring that up with the admins.

Netflix is here now, but many folks seem to use “O2 TV Air”, which is a way to watch ordinary cable packages over any Internet connection (not just from O2). SD streams are 3Mbit and HD 6Mbit. Weirdly, they don’t pace out their data but there’s a characteristic “pulsing” of the streams every 5 seconds that when I see it on the router's throughput graph I know, yep, that’s O2 TV. I’ll find out if their on-demand stuff has such a co-location option.

> https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/
> 
> 2) If the members voted for more backhaul, the costs are understandable…

Backhaul upgrades are coming into focus gradually, and upgrading those ALIX boxes which are tanks but...tanks.

I think some of the higher costs come from physical installations / placement rights. Surprising what towers can cost.

> 3) Philosophically I vastly prefer the concept of "everyone sharing
> the network", rather than rate plans, to create some market tension as
> to the available bandwidth at any given time of day.

Agree wholeheartedly. Rate limiting members isn’t necessary for a non-profit (no profit motive) and especially if we can get fairness right, there’s no technical reason to do it that I know of either.

> ubnt did add at least airtime fairness to airos a year or two back. It
> was not on by default. Their "TDMA" qos system was this insane mess of
> sfq rules when I tore it apart.... 8 years back.

I don’t know what they’re doing in their newer AC stuff, but I'm surprised by what appears to be ~6-8ms latency under load on the NanoStation 5 AC Loco’s I got for the camp’s backhaul. Is it really that good? This is in contrast to the 50+ms I see with rrul_be on the NanoStation M5 (without controlling the queue). This test is straight AP to AP though, with probably 1 flow up and 1 down plus ping, so I want to get 2-4 more of these and do rrul_be through the Ethernet ports, to get more flows and UDP, and see how it looks then.



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