[Cerowrt-devel] failing to find the "declared victory" in a current wifi router

Joe Touch touch at isi.edu
Tue Jul 7 00:22:00 EDT 2015

Hi, Rich,

On 7/6/2015 7:23 PM, Rich Brown wrote:
> Hi Joe,
> The OpenWrt firmware project is a "some assembly required" affair. 

That might be less daunting if there were assembly instructions. I.e.,
I'm suggesting that the instructions need revision. Work there could
have a significant payoff in a larger test community (I'm not exactly a
hardware noob, but I found it annoyingly obfuscated).

> Although it's not always easy to find, the site has a number of resources:
> 	- Buyer's Guide at http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/buyerguide

That is useful for picking from among the currently supported versions,
but perhaps it'd be useful to take a colleague with you to a store and
see how helpful that all is. It's nearly impossible to find any of the
devices in the list or to verify whether a particular device in a box
has the required version of motherboard and firmware needed.

> 	- The specific guidance to search Amazon for "OpenWrt" - see: http://amzn.to/1mONYr0

That turns up quite a bit of devices that aren't supported, FWIW.

> 	- The forum at: https://forum.openwrt.org/viewforum.php?id=10 mentions lots of routers

Indeed; more isn't better.

> As for specific routers:
> - The WNDR3800 remains our gold standard for CeroWrt builds. It'll
> do SQM up to ~30 mbps, then the CPU runs out of gas.

May I also suggest moving to another standard that hasn't been
explicitly "end-of-life'd" by the manufacturer.

> - Check the OpenWrt Table of Hardware (ToH) to see what other routers
> support the current stable 14.07/Barrier Breaker (BB) builds.

Sure - I spent several days in Target, Best Buy, and Fry's trying to
decipher whether particular products were supported - again often
difficult without UPC numbers (boxes don't always indicate version)

> - Many people on this list have good luck with the TP-Link Archer C7
> v2. I believe it'll route at cable speeds. I'm using it very
> successfully with OpenWrt BB release on a 7 mbps DSL line.

Here's a good example of how useful the information on the OpenWRT
website can be. Everyone seems to refer to this as "Archer C7", everyone
except the TP-Link website. Their search finds no products matching that
description, and the WIFI routers there are listed with other codes,
e.g.:TL-WDR7500 - except you won't find that number on the hardware page
-- you have to click through to the page for that device.

For that device, like for many, the most recent version (i.e., the one
more likely to arrive on a blind web order, or on most store shelves) is
not yet supported.

> - If you have been following the Linksys WRT1900AC and WRT1200AC 
> thread at
> https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50173&action=newyou'll see
> that the CC builds are sorta, kinda working. There are a lot of moving
> pieces still, and despite the CC RC2 status, stable builds only come
> out a few days apart. I would stay away from it if you're not willing
> to participate in a science experiment.

Well, the 23-Apr-2015 build by Kaloz works fine - except that the SQM
package fails to install.

What I'm baffled by here is that the main trunk builds leave LUCI out;
that's seems
quite short-sighted, IMO.

> There is a team working to improve the OpenWrt site, but our work
> has not yet been "blessed" by the the admin's who maintain the core pages of
> the site.

And I appreciate and understand that. The CeroWRT site could similarly
use an update.

I.e., there's ample opportunity here to build a larger community with a
few simple steps:

	- refer to routers by the manufacturer's designation
	- create builds with both LUCI and (if possible) SQM
	- make a short-list of a few currently available routers
	for which an integrated build exists *for the most recent
	motherboard version*

All of this could be done on the CeroWRT site until it can be put on

These are fairly direct ways to lower the bar, which seems unnecessarily
high here.


> Best,
> Rich Brown
> On Jul 6, 2015, at 9:02 PM, Joe Touch <touch at isi.edu> wrote:
>> Hi, all,
>> I'm posting because of my recent frustration with the claim that
>> bufferbloat solutions have been "pushed up into the OpenWRT and
>> commercial routers.
>> I spent the bulk of last weekend trying to find a COTS WIFI router that
>> supported OpenWRT with bufferbloat (SQM) extensions.
>> I tried a Linksys WRT1200AC, and here's what I found:
>> 	- Kaloz's 23-Apr-2015 build installs fine and comes up
>> 	with a web server (LUCI), but does NOT include SQM
>> 		- trying to install the SQM packages fails
>> 		due to a kernel version incompatibility
>> 		(for a 23-Apr-2015 build?!)
>> 	- CC-rc2 doesn't have a WRT1200AC build
>> 	presumably I should have used mvebu-armada-385-linksys-caiman,
>> 	but it's not at all clear
>> 		- and I'd have to install LUCI and/or reinstall
>> 		factory firmware from the command line, and none
>> 		of that is all that clear, esp. a recovery route
>> 		that doesn't involve voiding warranty to wire in
>> 		a serial port
>> Given the "declared victory" (http://www.bufferbloat.net/news/53),
>> perhaps someone one one of these lists can explain why there's no clear
>> information on a current device that supports a current build that
>> actually supports these fixes?
>> I.e., if you were trying to make this obscure, you're doing a very good job.
>> FWIW.
>> Joe
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
>> Cerowrt-devel at lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel

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