[LibreQoS] [Starlink] [Bloat] [Rpm] On FiWi

Bruce Perens bruce at perens.com
Tue Mar 14 19:30:44 EDT 2023

Let's remember some of the reasons why a lot of wireless-last-mile and mesh
networking plans have failed to date.

Most people who hand-wave about wireless _still_ don't understand Fresnel
Most don't account for the possibility of multipath.
Or the hidden transmitter problem.
Or absorption.
Or noise.

Spread spectrum does not cure all ills. You are *trading* bandwidth for
processing gain.
You also trade digital modulations that reach incredibly low s/n for
You can only extract so much of your link budget from processing or
efficient modulation. Many modern systems already operate at that point.

All usable spectrum has been allocated at any particular time. At least 50%
is spent on supporting legacy systems.

Your greatest spectrum availability will be at the highest possible
frequency, just because of 1/f. There your largest consideration will be



On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 12:30 PM rjmcmahon via Starlink <
starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> The design has to be flexible so DIY w/local firewall is fine.
> I'll disagree though that early & late majority care about firewalls.
> They want high-quality access that is secure & private. Both of these
> require high skill network engineers on staff. DIY is hard here.
> Intrusion detection systems, etc. are non-trivial. The days of broadcast
> NFL networks are over.
> I disagree to with nobody wanting to pay for quality access to knowledge
> based networks. Not that many years ago, nobody wanted to pay to teach
> women to read either. Then, nobody wanted to pay for university. I grew
> up in the latter and figured out that I needed come up with payment
> somehow to develop my brain. Otherwise, I was screwed.
> So, if it's a chatGPT, advertising system - sure wrong market. Free
> shit, even provided by Google, is mostly shit.
> Connect to something real without the privacy invasions, no queueing,
> etc. I think it's worth it in spades despite the idea that we shouldn't
> invest so people, regardless of gender, etc. can learn to read.
> Bob
> > end users are still going to want their own router/firewall.  That's
> > my point, I don't see how you can have that on-prem firewall while
> > having a remote radio that's useful.
> >
> > I would adamantly oppose anyone I know passing their firewall off to
> > the upstream vendor.   I run an MSP and I would offer a customer to
> > drop my services if they were to buy into something like this on the
> > business side.
> >
> > So I really only see this sort of concept for campus networks where
> > the end users are 'part' of the entity.
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 12:14 PM Robert McMahon
> > <rjmcmahon at rjmcmahon.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> It's not  discrete routers. It's more like a transceiver. WiFi is
> >> already splitting at the MAC for MLO. I perceive two choices for the
> >> split, one at the PHY DAC or, two, a minimalist 802.3 tunneling of
> >> 802.11 back to the FiWi head end. Use 802.3 to leverage merchant
> >> silicon supporting up to 200 or so RRHs or even move the baseband DSP
> >> there. I think a split PHY may not work well but a thorough eng
> >> analysis is still warranted.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Get BlueMail for Android
> >> On Mar 14, 2023, at 10:54 AM, dan <dandenson at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>  You could always do it yourself.
> >>>>
> >>>>  Most people need high skilled network engineers to provide them IT
> >>>> services. This need is only going to grow and grow. We can help by
> >>>> producing better and simpler offerings, be they DIY or by service
> >>>> providers.
> >>>>
> >>>>  Steve Job's almost didn't support the iPhone development because he
> >>>> hated "the orifices." Probably time for many of us to revisit our
> >>>> belief set. Does it move the needle, even if imperfectly?
> >>>>
> >>>>  FiWi blows the needle off the gauge by my judgment. Who does it is
> >>>> secondary.
> >>>>
> >>>>  Bob
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> most people are unwilling to pay for those services also lol.
> >>>
> >>> I don't see the paradigm of discreet routers/nat per prem anytime
> >>> soon.  If you subtract that piece of it then we're basically just
> >>> talking XGSPON or similar.
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Bruce Perens K6BP
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