[NNagain] The rise and fall of the 90's telecom bubble

Thu Nov 16 12:40:08 EST 2023

  _____  

From: Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces at lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via Nnagain
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 9:21 AM
To: nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
Cc: Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
Subject: Re: [NNagain] The rise and fall of the 90's telecom bubble

Hello all,

I have watched this discussion flourish but don't quite understand the
issues with 3G, 4G/LTE and 5G which you are relating here.
It seems to me more a problem of the carrier you are using than the
technology itself as I have been in plenty of locations in the world with
blazingly fast LTE and now 5G.

[RR] If you have a concrete definition of 5G, Id love to hear it.  Here
in the US, 5G is nothing more than hype at present, which is exactly why the
carriers are giving it away for free.  Its really hard to sell
vaporware to a discerning public.  Just look at the class action lawsuit
filed by Koreans against all the major Korean carriers for false advertising
on their 5G rollouts!  

And then, what does this have to do with Network Neutrality? 

[RR] Yes, we digressed on this thread :-):-):-)

Excuse my confusion but I just cannot put 2 and 2 together.

[RR] Its because of the units problem 
 hard to add apples and oranges as
we say!

Kindest regards,

Olivier

On 16/11/2023 18:02, Dick Roy via Nnagain wrote:

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From: Sebastian Moeller [mailto:moeller0 at gmx.de] 
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2023 3:02 AM
To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this
time!; Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain; Dick Roy
Subject: Re: [NNagain] The rise and fall of the 90's telecom bubble

Update, mmmh,

Virginia is apparently not only for 'lovers' but also for LTE, along the
trip with the silver line to Dulles, my phone reported 4G, aka LTE, while in
downtown DC EDGE-only it was...

[RR] You are really lucky!  It could have said 5G in which case youd have
been down to 19kbps 1980 modem rates! :-):-)

Regards
         Sebsstian

On 14 November 2023 13:06:39 CET, Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain
<mailto:nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net>
wrote:

Hi Richard,

On Nov 13, 2023, at 16:08, Dick Roy via Nnagain
<mailto:nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net>
wrote:

-----Original Message-----

From: Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces at lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of
Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain

Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 6:15 AM

To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this
time!

Cc: Sebastian Moeller

Subject: Re: [NNagain] The rise and fall of the 90's telecom bubble

Hi Jason,

On Nov 13, 2023, at 08:54, Livingood, Jason via Nnagain
<mailto:nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net>
wrote:

Would love to spend some time thinking together about what a smart
manufacturing system would look like in terms of connectivity, latency,
compute availability, anything that occurs to you. I know a guy who does
devops for factories, and he has amazing stories -- might be good to make
that connection as well. 

One of the L4S (low latency, low loss, scalable throughput) demos that Nokia
did at a recent IETF hackathon showed a simulated 5G access network to do
low latency remote control of cranes in an industrial port facility. It
seemed like one of their points was that you could remotely operate cargo
container movements with the crane via a remote workforce over a low delay
network connection - even with fairly limited bandwidth (theyd adjust the
throughput down to just a few hundred kbps).

While they did not say much more, I could envision a port operator being
able to gain more efficiency by enabling a skilled operator to control
cranes at several ports around the world on an as-needed basis (vs. being
based in 1 port and having some downtime or low utilization of their
skills/training), even from the comfort of home.

      I would stop doing business with such ports... there clearly are
accidents (or sabotage/jamming) just waiting to happen using wireless
connections for such use-cases... Yes, I understand that that is what Nokia
sells, so everything looks like a nail to them, but really "caveat emptor",
just because something can be done does not mean it should be done as
well... 

Regards

      Sebastian

P.S.: Currently in the US for a conference, getting reminded how shitty
GSM/LTE can be, heck the conference WiFi (with 25K attendees) is more
responsive than GSM... I am sure 5G might be better, but my phone is LTE
only...

[RR] Welcome to the club!  We in the US have been dealing with this for
over 30 years 
 why you ask???? ... answer 
 CDMA and the IPR behind it!  It
was and still is all about the money!. My phone has 5G and when download
rates plummet to the floor, all I have to do is look at the top of the
display, and lo and behold 
 Im on 5G!!! If you believe 5G is going to be
better, I have a bridge for you that is going to be soooo much better JJJ

      All good explanations for what I see, yet this is happening in the
capital... (but truth be told, when I bought this phone I did not pay much
attention to which bands it was suited for, it is not impossible that it at
least partly my phone's fault that I am connecting with EDGE speeds, quite
the throw-back to the 2000s ;) but back then EDGE was indeed cutting edge). 

About that bridge, I hope this is in NY city?

Regards

      Sebastian

RR

Jason

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-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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-- 
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
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