[NNagain] Geoff Huston's panel

Thu Feb 29 17:34:51 EST 2024

On Thu, Feb 29, 2024 at 12:26 PM Lee via Nnagain
<nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Feb 29, 2024 at 9:12 AM Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote:
> >
> > He is being incredibly provocative this week. It hurt to sit through this.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxO73fH0VqM
>
> Yes, he's provocative - but also entertaining.  And don't forget the audience:

> ABOUT APRICOT
>
> Representing Asia Pacific's largest international Internet conference,
> Asia Pacific Regional Internet Conference on Operational Technologies
> (APRICOT) draws many of the world's best Internet engineers,
> operators, researchers, service providers, users and policy
> communities from over 50 countries to teach, present, and do their own
> human networking.
>
> His last slide deck seemed to be a call to arms.  He's near the end of
> his career, so for all the Internet engineers, etc.  I saw it as a
> "here's where we're going.  Do you want to contribute to this trend or
> take the Internet in a different direction?"

I perceive the internet as a communications network, not just as a
content one. Chat, email, and other bidirectional communications
are the most useful parts of it, and cannot be cached.

>
> For example, after talking about CDNs and how most content is now
> local he brings up the bit about if 10% of your traffic costs you 90%
> of your carriage costs, if I was a rational provider, I would say to
> all those customers who need that 10% of the traffic go find someone
> else. I'm not going to do it.  Don't forget, this is a deregulated
> world - you can do that.  There is no universal obligation to carry
> default.

So the audience was in the cheap seats in the back like me, were
silently grinding their teeth?

> Does network neutrality require an ISP to connect you to the Internet
> at large?  Or do they get to drop the "expensive" traffic that
> requires connecting to a transit provider (or however they do it now
> to connect to the global Internet).
>
> I was a bit dubious about the assertion that most traffic stays within
> the AS but surprise, surprise, surprise (most people here are old
> enough to remember Gomer Pyle.. right?).. youtube content is in the
> Verizon network.  Start wireshark, get the IP address of the youtube
> server and
> $ sudo traceroute -6TAn 2600:803:f00::e
> traceroute to 2600:803:f00::e (2600:803:f00::e), 30 hops max, 72 byte packets
>   <.. snip ..>
>  3  2600:4000:1:236::326 [AS701]  33.323 ms 2600:4000:1:236::324
> [AS701]  2.542 ms 2600:4000:1:236::326 [AS701]  33.315 ms
>  4  * * *
>  5  2600:803:6af::6 [AS701]  3.843 ms  3.838 ms  3.834 ms
>  6  2600:803:f00::e [AS701]  2.911 ms  2.216 ms  2.472 ms
>
> Do the same for Netflix and I get three [??] different ASs:
> $ sudo traceroute -6TAn 2600:1f18:631e:2f84:4f7a:4092:e2e9:c617
> traceroute to 2600:1f18:631e:2f84:4f7a:4092:e2e9:c617
> (2600:1f18:631e:2f84:4f7a:4092:e2e9:c617), 30 hops max, 72 byte
> packets
>   <.. snip ..>
>  5  2600:803:9af::82 [AS701]  8.048 ms 2600:803:9af::5a [AS701]  8.297
> ms 2600:803:2::5a [AS701]  8.294 ms
>  6  * 2620:107:4000:c5c0::f3fd:f [*]  2.846 ms
> 2620:107:4000:c5c1::f3fd:20 [*]  2.810 ms
>  7  2620:107:4000:cfff::f202:d5b1 [*]  8.148 ms
> 2620:107:4000:cfff::f203:54b1 [*]  5.289 ms
> 2620:107:4000:cfff::f202:d4b1 [*]  4.300 ms
>  8  2620:107:4000:a793::f000:3863 [*]  4.865 ms
> 2620:107:4000:a610::f000:2403 [*]  5.245 ms
> 2620:107:4000:acd3::f000:e060 [*]  5.201 ms
>  9  * * *
> 10  2600:1f18:631e:2f84:4f7a:4092:e2e9:c617 [AS14618/AS16509]  4.881
> ms  4.864 ms  4.848 ms
> 11  2600:1f18:631e:2f84:4f7a:4092:e2e9:c617 [AS14618/AS16509]  6.351
> ms  6.075 ms  5.935 ms
>
> Does it violate network neutrality that youtube content takes the
> "fast lane" getting to me?
>
> and just for chuckles..
> $ dig 2024.apricot.net aaaa +short
> 2001:dd8:f::1

Anycast technology can certainly be applied to more parts of the
internet than it is today.

QUIC tho, seems to enable the idea that all of google could run off of
8.8.8.9, all of cloudflare, 1.1.1.9, etc.

>
> $ sudo traceroute -6TAn 2001:dd8:f::1
> traceroute to 2001:dd8:f::1 (2001:dd8:f::1), 30 hops max, 72 byte packets
>   <.. snip ..>
>  3  2600:4000:1:236::324 [AS701]  27.390 ms 2600:4000:1:236::326
> [AS701]  5.711 ms 2600:4000:1:236::324 [AS701]  27.384 ms
>  4  * * *
>  5  * * 2001:2035:0:bb3::1 [AS1299]  7.235 ms
>  6  2001:2034:1:73::1 [AS1299]  7.763 ms  6.033 ms  5.996 ms
>  7  2001:2034:1:b7::1 [AS1299]  11.530 ms 2001:2034:1:b8::1 [AS1299]
> 10.704 ms *
>  8  * * *
>  9  2001:2000:3080:230d::2 [AS1299]  72.609 ms  72.594 ms  73.096 ms
> 10  * * *
> 11  * * *
> 12  * * *
> 13  * 2402:7800:10::2 [AS4826]  289.033 ms *
> 14  2402:7800:10:1::12 [AS4826]  290.608 ms  292.440 ms  290.840 ms
> 15  2402:7800:10:8::16 [AS4826]  228.836 ms  229.406 ms  231.379 ms
> 16  2001:dd8:8:38::2 [AS4608]  233.803 ms  231.332 ms  233.572 ms
> 17  2001:dd8:f::1 [AS4608]  231.822 ms  231.137 ms  232.772 ms
>
> Oh my.. I'm betting that's a lot more than 100 miles away :)
>
> Regards,
> Lee
> _______________________________________________
> Nnagain mailing list
> Nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain

-- 
https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/2024_predictions/
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos