[NNagain] Verizon, T-Mobile, Nokia get noisy on network slicing and net neutrality (LightReading)

Sat Mar 9 21:08:18 EST 2024

V: Thats a fascinating question on so many fronts.  The number of
life-saving applications enabled by this simple scheme I will describe below
is huge (google CVRIA and youll get to
https://www.standards.its.dot.gov/developmentactivities/cvreference) where
you can spend hours or days!  

That said, V2X (which involves V to pedestrians, roadsides, personal devices
(aka iPhones) and more) communications is absolutely dominated (by many
orders of magnitude) by the following very simple scheme.  Here-I-am
messages (aka BSMs or Basic Safety Messages and their lookalikes) are
broadcast several times every second which sends to all receivers that are
in comm range, estimates of the senders kinematic state and a lot of other
stuff I dont have time to go into.  So the direct answer to your question
is: vehicles rarely talk directly to other vehicles, and when that becomes
necessary the vehicles know where each other are!  That, however, is not
really as relevant as knowing the layer-2 (aka MAC) addresses which also
happen to be in every stream (aka every DSRC packet transmitted OTA).  And
yes, local area networks in cars and roadside units can be involved in which
case layer-3 addresses (aka IP addresses) are also used.   Naturally this
technology can also be used as the first/last hop in a connecting to the
internet for hundreds of other purposes, or other access technologies
(google ITS station or simply think iPhone) can be and are used!  FTR, the
ITS station predates the iPhone! :-):-):-) 

There are hundreds of international standards detailing exactly how this is
done, and until a year ago, there were products on the roads in the US DOING
IT! Interestingly, the EU didnt fall for the con so they actually have
millions of units in the field and more getting deployed every day. Here in
the US, we just seem to want to get hosed by a big corporation while the
government sits by and watches 50,000 people a year die on our roads
needlessly. Stunningly, we (the US) are currently far behind the state of
play in this space that we were in over a decade ago 
 yes more than 10
years and billions of dollars have been wasted.  Didnt have to be this way,
but here we are.  People needlessly die every day on the roads and that
corporations market cap continues to climb! We (the US) are currently
experiencing another CDMA con job (aka square peg in a round hole with lots
of IPR) and no one seems to know or care. What is wrong with this
picture???? :-(:-(

Again, if you (the reader) have any interest in trying to right this ship,
feel free to contact me!

RR

  _____  

From: Vint Cerf [mailto:vint at google.com] 
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2024 3:03 PM
To: dickroy at alum.mit.edu; Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the
technical aspects heard this time!
Cc: Robert McMahon
Subject: Re: [NNagain] Verizon, T-Mobile, Nokia get noisy on network slicing
and net neutrality (LightReading)

How do you know where the vehicle is that you are talking to?

V

On Sat, Mar 9, 2024, 17:26 Dick Roy via Nnagain
<nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

  _____  

From: Robert McMahon [mailto:rjmcmahon at rjmcmahon.com] 
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2024 12:58 PM
To: dickroy at alum.mit.edu; Dick Roy via Nnagain
Subject: Re: [NNagain] Verizon, T-Mobile, Nokia get noisy on network slicing
and net neutrality (LightReading)

What is DSRC?

[RR] Dont get me started! :-(:-(:-(  Very simply it is the optimal
technology for V2X comms (it is in over 11 billion devices on the planet
today 
 aka Wi-Fi at 5.9GHz 
 think 802.11a) that has been shelved here in
the US (temporarily if I have anything to say about it) in favor of an
8-year old technology that does not work and on which a single company has a
majority of the IPR.  Surprise, surprise, that company has invested 100s of
millions of dollars to execute this con job, and unfortunately its working.
DSRC products were available more than 8 years ago and would have been on
the roads today (and in handsets) in large numbers saving lives, but that
wasnt good enough for that company because they stand to get >10x in
royalty fees if and when the FCC mandates their technology.  When the
general public becomes aware of this con, and fully understands the impact,
they should be and will be outraged! Think DOWNFALL: The Case Against
Boeing  
 its exactly the same thing 
 just the names have been changed.
Watch it if you havent already!

Contact me if you want more details!  I am looking for any and ALL help I
can get to expose this fraud.

Cheers,

RR 

DSRC (Dedicated Short-Range Communications) is a wireless communication
technology that enables vehicles to communicate with each other and other
road users directly, without involving cellular or other infrastructure.
DSRC is based on WiFi technology

https://auto-talks.com/technology/dsrc-technology/#:~:text=What%20is%20DSRC%
3F,involving%20cellular%20or%20other%20infrastructure.

On Mar 9, 2024, at 12:42 PM, Dick Roy via Nnagain
<nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

As expected this technique is designed to allow exactly what NN was designed
to prohibit (treating packets differentially in the internet based on
economic considerations*)... this is IMHO why instead of calling a spade a
spade mobile carriers avoid describing this in a useful way, as it is
exactly about prioritisation... IMHO that will back fire, and a better
avenue would be to be open about what it enables and propose a method to
restrict the potential issues. E.g. (I am making this up on the fly, so it
will likely not hold up to any degree of scrutiny) by self limiting to never
commit more than X% of a cell's capacity to slicing, IFF the cell is used
for normal end user service at all. So admit that there is some trade-off
here, limit the fall-out, and then describe why we as a society should
embrace that trade-off. I am a bit sceptical about the whole car 2 car
communication thing (that is cars talk to cars, not people n cars talk to
people on cars ;) ), but if a Carrier believes there is value in that for
e.g. accident avoidance, then tell how this requires the stricter network
guarantees that (only?) slicing can deliver.

[RR] V2X communications for saving lives will NEVER go through ANY carriers
network in spite of what you hear.  There is simply no way anyone is going
to pay to have BSMs broadcast 10 times a second to prevent accidents, and NO
CARRIER is going to give that capacity away for free, even if they had
enough to carry the traffic, which they do not by many orders of
magnitude!!!  More importantly, the information being exchanged does NOT
require a network to get where it needs to go!  The 5G hype you hear from
various carriers and equipment suppliers related to V2X communications is
all powerpoint BS (to make shareholders happy). And there is a ton of it out
there! :-):-)

RR

  _____  

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