[Starlink] Optimized for Speedtest?

[Dave Taht]

One of the many unknowns is about how starlink schedules uplink and
downlink "rates" (e.g to some extent the density of encodings). Is it
one or more beam with multiple destinatons on the down? Or ?

Toke went deep into how wifi ATF works here:
https://blog.tohojo.dk/2016/06/fixing-the-wifi-performance-anomaly-on-ath9k.html

Another big question is how they handle encryption(s), again, how wifi
works from my notebook is here:
https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/crypto_fq_bug/ (with just how hard it
was to get right! I still have 87 blog entries from that era to write
up!)

I can think of a half dozen different ways they could be modulating
the beams to encapsulate all the data! Wifi had crypto baked in late
(see above) and i would have started with good crypto first in their
case, but "my" solution would have much higher power requirements
(spitting own all data, received by all, decrypted by the receivers
that could find their segments) than what I think they are actually
doing, but without two dishys on the same cell, closely linked in time
via gps pps, and refine analog an digital measurements, can't wager a
guess at the moment.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 5:48 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For the historical record, we finally found ways to compensate for the
> wildly variable bandwidth wifi can have in 2014, and mainlined into
> linux in 2016.
>
> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/real_results/
>
> Example of ath10k wifi before/after here:
>
> https://forum.openwrt.org/t/aql-and-the-ath10k-is-lovely/59002/
>
> starlink, on the uplink anyway, seemed straightforward to fix, in
> comparison to wifi.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 5:39 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 5:09 PM Daniel AJ Sokolov <daniel at falco.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > >  From this list I have learned that Starlink is optimized to shine in
> > > tests with speedtest.net and similar sites, but that transmission rates
> > > drop quickly after about 15 seconds.
> >
> > That is not strictly true. The trend is a low rate for the initial
> > 15s, then a boost, then variable. It happens that speedtest reports
> > the *last* result in the typically 20s it runs,
> > so by that light is starlink is "optimized for speedtest". Much of the
> > internet is "optimized for speedtest", tons of services basically blow
> > up classic tcp congestion controls at T+21s.
> >
> > Attached are two example flent test runs, a rrul test from one project
> > member's dishy, and a tcp_nup test from anothers.
> >
> > For reference also attached is how a present day WISP 60Ghz radio
> > functions, one which has FQ and AQM, with consistent bandwidth, and
> > only ~5ms latency swings. Ideally the latency on starlink would not go
> > over 10ms their baseline ~40ms latency, under these loads.
> >
> > Comparing the later two tests you can see the inversions between
> > bandwidth and latency that come from the fixed length fifos starlink
> > uses at any of the roughly 3
> > speed settings we currently see.
> >
> > PS - most web pages cannot use more than 25MBit in the 3s they typically take.
> >
> > > How do they do that, technically?
> >
> > Allocate bandwidth? Unknown. Ever 15s seems silly. Not modifying queue
> > length and/not using a smarter queuing algo like fq_codel or cake when
> > they do change the bandwidth allocation is the simple flaw in their
> > design I keep hoping they'll fix.
> >
> > >
> > > Is that a result of Bufferbloat?
> >
> > Yes. The rrul test is often illustrative of the problem on how slowly
> > the internet operates during an upload clogging up the queue, or vice
> > versa. Most ISPs do some sort of ack filtering or prioritization to
> > make uploads interfere less with downloads, or use AQM, fq or a
> > combination of both.
> >
> > > Is that a a specific code in the modem
> > > to cheat, like some car manufacturers cheated on emissions tests?
> >
> > I hope not. No, they do have limited capacity, do have to change sats,
> > do need to allocate bandwidth sanely. AND buffering.
> >
> > > Is
> > > that something done in the satellites who shift capacity from other
> > > users to those users who initiate downloads? Is that done on the backhaul?
> >
> > Wish we knew. In my ideal world they would supply a statistic that a
> > sch_cake could take and vary the rate/buffering based on that on the
> > home router, or just do it more right
> > in the dishy and head ends with cake + BQL.
> >
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > > Daniel
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Starlink mailing list
> > > Starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net
> > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > I tried to build a better future, a few times:
> > https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org
> >
> > Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>
>
>
> --
> I tried to build a better future, a few times:
> https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org
>
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC



-- 
I tried to build a better future, a few times:
https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org

Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC