[Starlink] Debugging connection through Starlink (POINTR)

Nathan Owens nathan at nathan.io
Mon Mar 6 16:03:59 EST 2023 

That latitude is perfect for Starlink, tons of sats overhead.

I'll pitch starlink.sx as a better simulator :)
[image: Screenshot 2023-03-06 at 1.03.35 PM.png]


On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 1:00 PM Sauli Kiviranta via Starlink <
starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> Thank you Ulrich for sharing the material!
>
> I was finally able to get rough estimate of the test site, pictures
> attached. Comparison with your satellite map from the presentation,
> with my limited experience, looks like the situation is not so bad?
>
> Really strange, maybe the only option is the local obstructions.
> Alternatively it was just unfortunate routing for the call on our
> side, very hard to judge. Now the pivot point is determined by the
> call source.
>
> Best regards,
> Sauli
>
>
> On 01/03/2023, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink
> <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> > On 1/03/2023 3:41 am, Sauli Kiviranta via Starlink wrote:
> >>
> >> Based on your location in NZ you should be among the best tests in
> >> terms of worst possible location in relation to our infra for delays.
> >
> > Actually, probably we're anything but ideal here. Our Starlink kit is an
> > RV subscription one (our campus is too built-up for a fixed one and H&S
> > gets in the way of going onto any roof with students). RV subscription
> > capacity is managed differently from fixed subscriptions, which is what
> > most people have (we see much more variation in goodput and RTT than
> > what I've seen fixed users report).
> >
> > Also, our location here gives us a number of "unfair advantages" in
> > terms of Starlink: proximity to multiple gateways (lost of choice in
> > terms of sats visible from both UT and GW to route through),
> > neighbourhood on a cheap high fibre diet (not much competition for
> > capacity from other users in the cell), small extended neighbourhood
> > (some of which is already saturated). See my slides of a panel talk I
> > gave the other day at APNIC55 under
> >
> https://conference.apnic.net/55/assets/files/APPS314/starlink-first-impre_1677543480.pdf
> .
> >
> >
> >
> > So I'm not sure how comparable our situation would be with that of your
> > customer.
> >
> >> Do you mind running POINTR network analysis and see what kind of
> >> results you get? We did some tests with mining industry in Australia
> >> with sat but it is already few years ago not Starlink.
> >
> > Australia is topologically further away from Finland than NZ - if you do
> > a traceroute, you should see your traffic go via the US, and then
> > depending on the cable it takes down to Oceania, it may actually transit
> > NZ (Southern Cross cable) before hitting Australia.
> >
> > I'll see what I can do in terms of POINTR once our industrial action
> > here ends (I'm currently nominally on strike, but then again I'd
> > probably be on here even if I didn't get paid ;-)).
> >
> >> Even better if
> >> you have two devices, register them then call to yourself so both
> >> endpoints go through the Starlink to see if everything or anything
> >> works and what type of delays you experience (double trouble!).
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Sauli
> >>
> >>
> >> On 28/02/2023, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink
> >> <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >> > I think you may find this difficult to reproduce unless you actually
> go
> >> > and see your customer.
> >> >
> >> > Starlink isn't the same as Starlink. How it works depends on:
> >> >
> >> > * Where your dishy is and where the closest gateway(s) is/are. This
> >> > determines the number of options that the system has to route
> >> > between you and the gateway. The closer, the more options,
> >> > generally, as the number of sats that both you and the gateway can
> >> > see decreases, as a rule of thumb, with distance between you and
> >> > gateway.
> >> > * Where you are also matters. Satellite density is highest at 53 deg
> >> > north and 53 deg south. Starlink units between these parallels will
> >> > look in the direction of their hemisphere when looking for a
> >> > satellite. Units at higher latitudes ... well someone tell me where
> >> > they look!
> >> > * How many other Starlink users there are (a) in your cell and (b) in
> >> > the neighbourhood of your cell. This determines the share of
> >> > capacity you'll get off the system. The fewer competing users, the
> >> > better.
> >> > * What sort of backhaul the gateway is on. I only see IPv4 here in NZ
> >> > but some folk are on IPv6, and I guess the backhaul network beyond
> >> > Starlink's control also matters in terms of bufferbloat etc.
> >> > * Weather
> >> > * Obstructions (Starlink can works pretty well with a moderate degree
> >> > of obstruction, but obviously, as stated above, the more options the
> >> > system has...)
> >> > * Available bandwidth (did Starlink get all the frequencies that it
> >> > would have wanted at your customer's site or just some?) - that's a
> >> > regulatory issue.
> >> >
> >> > Basically, you could be comparing apples and pears here.
> >> >
> >> > On 1/03/2023 12:53 am, Sauli Kiviranta via Starlink wrote:
> >> >> Thank you for the testing so far!
> >> >>
> >> >> Special thanks to Nathan for the test call yesterday, looks like
> >> >> everything works. I was shocked how good the Starlink performed, I
> was
> >> >> in disbelief how well it worked since on my side I was also on 4G and
> >> >> the performance was spectacular. Not the usual
> >> >> 8000km-and-sat-inbetween feeling.
> >> >>
> >> >> So far we have not been able to reproduce the errors, if the call is
> >> >> initiated from US it will route through the local infra. So this
> could
> >> >> be one issue, if someone wants to make another test call we can route
> >> >> it through EU.
> >> >>
> >> >> Anyone in Canada capable of making a test? Even to just run the
> >> >> network analysis.
> >> >>
> >> >> I will meanwhile have to point the finger at the customer if there
> are
> >> >> no signs of failure in any of the tests, I hate that. Fixing a juicy
> >> >> bug is better than having configuration when things just fail
> "without
> >> >> reason".
> >> >>
> >> >> I can also provide additional test tools if someone is interested in
> >> >> more bolts and nuts testing. Send me an email with platform
> preference
> >> >> and I will share the test kit.
> >> >>
> >> >> Best regards,
> >> >> Sauli
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 27/02/2023, starlink-request at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> >> <starlink-request at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >> >> > Send Starlink mailing list submissions to
> >> >> > starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> >> >
> >> >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >> >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> >> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>
> >> >> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> >> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>>
> >> >> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >> >> > starlink-request at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >> >> > starlink-owner at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> >> >
> >> >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> >> > than "Re: Contents of Starlink digest..."
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Today's Topics:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 1. Debugging connection through Starlink (POINTR) (Sauli Kiviranta)
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Message: 1
> >> >> > Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 10:58:53 +0200
> >> >> > From: Sauli Kiviranta <smksauli at gmail.com>
> >> >> > To: starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> >> > Subject: [Starlink] Debugging connection through Starlink (POINTR)
> >> >> > Message-ID:
> >> >> > <CAJbqEYCDQOqqfpt4=
> gEpGV37URRh2UvGLjKV1XEpNPm1bxMu3Q at mail.gmail.com>
> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Dear Starlink users,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I have a request for help on debugging a customer issue. We have
> >> users
> >> >> > in Canada who are using our industrial remote collaboration tool
> >> >> > POINTR (www.pointr.com
> >> <http://www.pointr.com>
> >> >> <http://www.pointr.com
> >> <http://www.pointr.com>>)
> >> >> and have issues connecting through Starlink
> >> >> > (Standard HTTPS). We cannot reproduce their case as we have no
> >> >> > Starlink at our disposal.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you would be kind enough to download POINTR (either from the app
> >> >> > stores or from our website: https://www.pointr.com/downloads/
> >> <https://www.pointr.com/downloads>
> >> >> <https://www.pointr.com/downloads
> >> <https://www.pointr.com/downloads>>).
> >> >> The
> >> >> > app itself follows standard SMS validation loop, if this is an
> >> issue I
> >> >> > can provide you with virtual number with email validation.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Problem 1: Can you connect to the servers?
> >> >> > - Once you try to complete registration loop, you should get an
> >> >> > error
> >> >> > that you are offline indicative that servers cannot be reached
> (AWS,
> >> >> > Ireland/US/Brazil/Japan).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Problem 2: What is the perceived network quality within the app?
> >> >> > - Considering the outlined server distribution, if you run the
> >> network
> >> >> > analysis, can you take a screenshot and share it? (Example
> >> >> > attached).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Problem 3: What is the call quality between your devices?
> >> >> > - If you can run network analysis, can you register another device
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > yours (same mobile number is ok) and call between your own devices
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > test how the video streaming goes through and what type of delay
> you
> >> >> > experience? I will be also available for test calls if you want to
> >> >> > establish a call between your location and Finland: +358 40 357
> 3272
> >> >> > (group calls up to 7 users).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Additionally any technical feedback on the behavior will be
> >> >> > appreciated specially if you experience issues.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Best regards,
> >> >> > Sauli Kiviranta
> >> >> >
> >> >> > www.deltacygnilabs.com
> >> <http://www.deltacygnilabs.com>
> >> >> <http://www.deltacygnilabs.com
> >> <http://www.deltacygnilabs.com>>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Downloads:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Android:
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr
> >> <
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr>
> >> >>
> >> <
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr
> >> <
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr>>
> >> >> > APK:
> >> >> > https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-android
> >> <https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-android>
> >> >> <https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-android
> >> <https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-android>>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > iOS:
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pointr-easy-remote-support/id1073131903
> >> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pointr-easy-remote-support/id1073131903>
> >> >>
> >> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pointr-easy-remote-support/id1073131903
> >> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pointr-easy-remote-support/id1073131903
> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > UWP:
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41
> >>
> >> <
> https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41
> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> <
> https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41
> >>
> >> <
> https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41
> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Windows:
> >> >> > https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-windows
> >> <https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-windows>
> >> >> <https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-windows
> >> <https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-windows>>
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> >> >> >
> >> >> > ------------------------------
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Starlink mailing list
> >> >> > Starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> >> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>
> >> >> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> >> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ------------------------------
> >> >> >
> >> >> > End of Starlink Digest, Vol 23, Issue 26
> >> >> > ****************************************
> >> >> >
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Starlink mailing list
> >> >> Starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> >> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>
> >> >> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> >> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>>
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > ****************************************************************
> >> > Dr. Ulrich Speidel
> >> >
> >> > School of Computer Science
> >> >
> >> > Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
> >> >
> >> > The University of Auckland
> >> > u.speidel at auckland.ac.nz
> >> > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
> >> <http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich>
> >> > ****************************************************************
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Starlink mailing list
> >> Starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> >> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>
> >
> > --
> > ****************************************************************
> > Dr. Ulrich Speidel
> >
> > School of Computer Science
> >
> > Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
> >
> > The University of Auckland
> > u.speidel at auckland.ac.nz
> > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
> > ****************************************************************
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
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