[Bloat] [Starlink] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat

David Lang david at lang.hm
Sat Mar 25 19:20:40 EDT 2023

if you want to eliminate insurance, then you need to eliminate the liability, 
which I don't think you want to do if you want to claim that this is 'life 

David Lang

On Sat, 25 Mar 2023, Robert McMahon via Bloat wrote:

> Hi Bruce,
> I think you may be the right guy to solve this. I too remember the days of dry wire sold by the RBOCs.
> I found a structured wire fire alarm install to cost $100k for our building or $20k per unit. The labor and materials is about $25k. The other $75k is liability related costs, similar to a bike helmet, $10 in parts, $40 in insurance. So it's not labor nor equipment that drives the expenses. My opinion is poor people shouldn't have to pay for insurance to insurance companies, companies that figure figures for a living.
> A digression: I could do an LMR 600 passive cable system looped with Wilkinson power dividers, patch antennas and nests to protect the egress escape ladder for about $10 to $15K. Don't need an SLA. We've basically priced protecting human lives to only rich people.
> We need to use technology and our cleverness to fix this version of "expense bloat."
> Look at Boston public water for an example. Way too expensive to pipe water in from 15 miles away in the early days. So people who did it claimed alcoholism (and that "immorality") would be eliminated by providing clean and pure potable public water.  Alcholics would choose pathogen free water over spirits. Rich people got enough water for themselves and even for their private fountains so society stopped this initiative.
> It was a motivated doctor who taught rich people that their health was tied to public health. And public health was being impacted because pathogens being spread to poor people who didn't get potable public water would by addressed by ubiquitous potable water supplies. The fire chief was put in charge. See Ties That Bind
> https://upittpress.org/books/9780822961475/
> Now, in the U.S, most do get potable water even to flush a toilet. It's taken for granted.
> I think it's on us to do similar for digital communication networks. They're needed far beyond entertainment, and we need to get public safety elements engaged too.
> Bob
> On Mar 25, 2023, 2:08 PM, at 2:08 PM, Bruce Perens <bruce at perens.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 1:44 PM rjmcmahon via Starlink <
>> starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>> The point of the thread is that we still do not treat digital
>>> communications infrastructure as life support critical.
>> When I was younger there was a standard way to do this. Fire alarms had
>> a
>> dedicated pair directly to the fire department or a local alarm
>> station.
>> This wasn't dial-tone, it was a DC pair that would drop a trouble
>> notification if DC was interrupted, and I think it would reverse
>> polarity
>> to indicate alarm. If DC was interrupted, that would also turn off the
>> boiler in the building.
>> Today my home fire alarms are wireless and have cellular back to their
>> main
>> Comcast connection, and detect CO, smoke, and temperature. This would
>> not
>> meet insurance requirements for a commercial building, they still have
>> all
>> of the sensors wired, with cellular backup.
>> I don't think you are considering what life-support-critical digital
>> communications would really cost. Start with metal conduit and
>> fire-resistant wiring throughout the structure. Provide redundant power
>> for
>> *every* fan-out box (we just had a 24-hour power interruption here due
>> to
>> storms). AT&T provides 4 hour power for "Lightspeed" tombstone boxes
>> that
>> fan out telephone, beyond that a truck has to drive out and plug in a
>> generator, or you are out of luck if it's a wide-are outage like we
>> just
>> had. Wire areas in a redundant loop rather than a tree. Supervise every
>> home so that interruptions are serviced automatically. Provide a 4-hour
>> SLA.
>> The phone company used to do what you are asking for. The high prices
>> this
>> required are the main reason that everyone has jumped off of using the
>> legacy telco for telephony.
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