[NNagain] The Verge: The quiet plan to make the internet feel faster

[rjmcmahon]

My opinion only and not those of my employer.

I'm ok with people getting paid for doing new work and new innovations. 
I deliver iperf 2 free to all, and to be honest, I may be able to have a 
better product or, at least some public servers, if users paid 
something.

I think Dave & others run into this issue too. Few to no payments for 
their work.

The challenge for us in sw is that the marginal cost to produce (or unit 
value) is basically zero. Then it's the up front costs (or non recurring 
engineering NRE) that drives the recovery. That goes to zero too per 
amortization across millions of users. This is all predictable by Adam 
Smith himself - yet many of us try to defy those realities.

I get that everybody wants free things. But it can be unrealistic and 
demotivating when people demand things to be free. What can happen is 
nobody will do the work or innovation (or be under constant threat by 
their employer of being let go because free things don't directly drive 
up profits required shareholders. Somehow we persist.)

Bob
>> “A possible L4S end game?”
> 
> Doubtful; latency is just emerging as a new competitive factor –
> like throughput. I also think – if we care about reducing latency
> – we should embrace whatever works well and achieves scale (Betamax
> vs VHS).  😉
> 
> From: Nnagain <nnagain-bounces at lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of
> Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Reply-To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical
> aspects heard this time! <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Date: Monday, December 11, 2023 at 04:39
> To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects
> heard this time! <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Cc: Frank Borsik <frantisek.borsik at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NNagain] The Verge: The quiet plan to make the internet
> feel faster
> 
> Top story on HN:
> 
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38597744 [6]
> 
> My pick for top comment:
> 
> A possible L4S end game? 😁
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Frank
> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
> 
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik [3]
> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
> Skype: casioa5302ca
> frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
> 
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 7:22 PM, Robert McMahon via Nnagain
> <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
>> Sorry, this isn't a very good technical analysis. It's a push agenda
>> for AQM. I get that many people's egos are tied to their belief that
>> my algorithm came down from God himself. It's not true though.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> On Dec 10, 2023, at 3:12 AM, Sauli Kiviranta via Nnagain
>> <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> 
>> I find it alarming for the future of internet that there is a trend
>> to
>> use elbowing techniques to squeeze metrics out at the expense of all
>> other flows. We know that when nobody plays fair the arms race ends
>> badly.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Sauli
>> 
>> On 12/10/23, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain
>> <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Well, to be completely honest, I would say its about general
>> public, really
>> - it’s an article in The Verge :-)
>> 
>> But yeah. Here’s something they should address:
>> 
>> https://github.com/heistp/l4s-tests#key-findings [1]
>> 
>> In general - a potential harm to innocent bystanders is a biggest
>> L4S
>> problem:
>> 
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/frantisekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX
>> [2]
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Frank
>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>> 
>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik [3]
>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
>> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
>> Skype: casioa5302ca
>> frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
>> 
>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 5:48 AM, Matt Mathis via Nnagain <
>> nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> 
>> About L4S
>> 
>> 
> https://www.theverge.com/23655762/l4s-internet-apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth
>> [4]
>> 
>> It says something about their target audience that they feel they
>> need to
>> explain bytes vs bits.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> --MM--
>> Evil is defined by mortals who think they know "The Truth" and use
>> force
>> to apply it to others.
>> 
>> -------------------------
>> 
>> Matt Mathis  (Email is best)
>> Home & mobile: 412-654-7529 please leave a message if you must
>> call.
>> 
>> -------------------------
>> 
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>> Nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain [5]
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> Links:
> ------
> [1] 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/heistp/l4s-tests*key-findings__;Iw!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt_Jjdven$
> [2] 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/posts/frantisekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt5RQfEuC$
> [3] 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt24e-KKI$
> [4] 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.theverge.com/23655762/l4s-internet-apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt4RcaVq3$
> [5] 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt1kOEovk$
> [6] 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38597744__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrntyFCpWS8$
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