[NNagain] The Verge: The quiet plan to make the internet feel faster

Mon Dec 11 14:25:59 EST 2023

This has some connection to what the creator of Wondershaper ("Wondeshaper
must die! - I always keep hearing Dave in my head, when I see that word
anywhere :-), Bert Hubert
<https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7139937627448733697/>,
shared today: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/anonymous-help/

All the best,

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik

Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885

Skype: casioa5302ca

frantisek.borsik at gmail.com

On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 7:51 PM rjmcmahon via Nnagain <
nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> My opinion only and not those of my employer.
>
> I'm ok with people getting paid for doing new work and new innovations.
> I deliver iperf 2 free to all, and to be honest, I may be able to have a
> better product or, at least some public servers, if users paid
> something.
>
> I think Dave & others run into this issue too. Few to no payments for
> their work.
>
> The challenge for us in sw is that the marginal cost to produce (or unit
> value) is basically zero. Then it's the up front costs (or non recurring
> engineering NRE) that drives the recovery. That goes to zero too per
> amortization across millions of users. This is all predictable by Adam
> Smith himself - yet many of us try to defy those realities.
>
> I get that everybody wants free things. But it can be unrealistic and
> demotivating when people demand things to be free. What can happen is
> nobody will do the work or innovation (or be under constant threat by
> their employer of being let go because free things don't directly drive
> up profits required shareholders. Somehow we persist.)
>
> Bob
> >> “A possible L4S end game?”
> >
> > Doubtful; latency is just emerging as a new competitive factor –
> > like throughput. I also think – if we care about reducing latency
> > – we should embrace whatever works well and achieves scale (Betamax
> > vs VHS).  😉
> >
> > From: Nnagain <nnagain-bounces at lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of
> > Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net>
> > Reply-To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical
> > aspects heard this time! <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net>
> > Date: Monday, December 11, 2023 at 04:39
> > To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects
> > heard this time! <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net>
> > Cc: Frank Borsik <frantisek.borsik at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NNagain] The Verge: The quiet plan to make the internet
> > feel faster
> >
> > Top story on HN:
> >
> > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38597744 [6]
> >
> > My pick for top comment:
> >
> > A possible L4S end game? 😁
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Frank
> > Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
> >
> > https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik [3]
> > Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
> > iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
> > Skype: casioa5302ca
> > frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
> >
> > On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 7:22 PM, Robert McMahon via Nnagain
> > <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Sorry, this isn't a very good technical analysis. It's a push agenda
> >> for AQM. I get that many people's egos are tied to their belief that
> >> my algorithm came down from God himself. It's not true though.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >> On Dec 10, 2023, at 3:12 AM, Sauli Kiviranta via Nnagain
> >> <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I find it alarming for the future of internet that there is a trend
> >> to
> >> use elbowing techniques to squeeze metrics out at the expense of all
> >> other flows. We know that when nobody plays fair the arms race ends
> >> badly.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Sauli
> >>
> >> On 12/10/23, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain
> >> <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, to be completely honest, I would say its about general
> >> public, really
> >> - it’s an article in The Verge :-)
> >>
> >> But yeah. Here’s something they should address:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/heistp/l4s-tests#key-findings [1]
> >>
> >> In general - a potential harm to innocent bystanders is a biggest
> >> L4S
> >> problem:
> >>
> >
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/frantisekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX
> >> [2]
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >>
> >> Frank
> >> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
> >>
> >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik [3]
> >> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
> >> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
> >> Skype: casioa5302ca
> >> frantisek.borsik at gmail.com
> >>
> >> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 5:48 AM, Matt Mathis via Nnagain <
> >> nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> About L4S
> >>
> >>
> >
> https://www.theverge.com/23655762/l4s-internet-apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth
> >> [4]
> >>
> >> It says something about their target audience that they feel they
> >> need to
> >> explain bytes vs bits.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> --MM--
> >> Evil is defined by mortals who think they know "The Truth" and use
> >> force
> >> to apply it to others.
> >>
> >> -------------------------
> >>
> >> Matt Mathis  (Email is best)
> >> Home & mobile: 412-654-7529 please leave a message if you must
> >> call.
> >>
> >> -------------------------
> >>
> >> Nnagain mailing list
> >> Nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain [5]
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > Nnagain mailing list
> > Nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain [5]
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nnagain mailing list
> > Nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain [5]
> >
> > Links:
> > ------
> > [1]
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/heistp/l4s-tests*key-findings__;Iw!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt_Jjdven$
> > [2]
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/posts/frantisekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt5RQfEuC$
> > [3]
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt24e-KKI$
> > [4]
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.theverge.com/23655762/l4s-internet-apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt4RcaVq3$
> > [5]
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt1kOEovk$
> > [6]
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38597744__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrntyFCpWS8$
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nnagain mailing list
> > Nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
> _______________________________________________
> Nnagain mailing list
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>
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