[Rpm] Almost had a dialog going with juniper...

[Frantisek Borsik]

What's the saddest thing for me is that the Juniper lady has acknowledged
that Dave IS right and then she added those 2 AQM to the her article (where
it should be), however, then she blocked me, and maybe even Dave, or others
that were commenting on it? Besides the actual evaporating of those
comments.

Sad. I'd visit Your Los Gatos neighbor Bob, for a small talk, Dave ;-)

All the best,

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik



https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik

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On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 1:02 AM rjmcmahon via Rpm <rpm at lists.bufferbloat.net>
wrote:

> Here, look at this. Designed as a WiFi aggregation device.
>
> https://www.arista.com/en/products/750-series
>
> It supplies 60W PoE and claims support for 384 ports. Oh, the max
> distance per PoE AP is 100 meters.
>
> That's insane as a power source and the 100M distance limit is not
> viable.
>
> Our engineering needs to improve a lot.
>
> Bob
> > Cisco's first acquisition was Crescendo. They started with twisted
> > pair and moved to Cat5. At the time, the claim was nobody would rewire
> > corporate offices. But they did and those engineers always had an AC
> > power plug nearby so they never really designed for power/bit over
> > distance.
> >
> > Broadcom purchased Epigram. They started with twisted pair and moved
> > to wireless (CMOS radios.) The engineers found that people really
> > don't want to be tethered to wall jacks. So they had to consider power
> > at all aspects of design.
> >
> > AP engineers have been a bit of a Frankenstein. They have power per AC
> > wall jacks so the blast energy everywhere to sell sq ft. The
> > enterprise AP guys do silly things like PoE.
> >
> > Better is to add CMOS radios everywhere and decrease power,
> > inter-connected by fiber which is the end game in waveguides. Even the
> > data centers are now limited to 4-meter cables when using copper and
> > the energy consumption is through the roof.
> >
> > Bob
> >> On Sun, Feb 19, 2023 at 3:37 PM rjmcmahon <rjmcmahon at rjmcmahon.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> A bit off topic, but the AP/client power asymmetry is another design
> >>> flaw similar to bloat.
> >>
> >> It makes no sense to broadcast at a watt when the device is nearby. I
> >> think this is a huge, and largely unexplored problem. We tried to
> >> tackle it in the minstrel-blues project but didn't get far enough, and
> >> the rate controllers became too proprietary to continue. Some details
> >> here:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/thuehn/Minstrel-Blues
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Not sure why nobody is talking about that.
> >>
> >> Understanding of the inverse square law is rare. The work we did at
> >> google fiber, clearly showed the chromecast stick overdriving nearby
> >> APs.
> >>
> >> https://apenwarr.ca/diary/wifi-data-apenwarr-201602.pdf
> >>
> >>
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey5jVUXSJn4
> >>
> >> Haha.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>> > Their post isn't really about bloat. It's about the discrepancy in
> i/o
> >>> > bw of memory off-chip and on-chip.
> >>> >
> >>> > My opinion is that the off-chip memory or hybrid approach is a design
> >>> > flaw for a serious router mfg. The flaw is thinking the links' rates
> >>> > and the chip memory i/o rates aren't connected when obviously they
> >>> > are. Just go fast as possible and let some other device buffer, e.g.
> >>> > the end host or the server in the cloud.
> >>> >
> >>> > Bob
> >>> >> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/juniper/
> >>> >>
> >>> >> But they deleted the comment thread. It is interesting, I suppose,
> to
> >>> >> see how they frame the buffering problems to themselves in their
> post:
> >>> >>
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/sizing-router-buffers-small-new-big-sharada-yeluri/
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