[Starlink] Main hurdles against the Integration of Satellites and Terrestial Networks

[Hesham ElBakoury]

My understanding is that for integrated NTN and Terrestrial network we may
need new or enhanced routing protocols. There are many publications in this
area.

I suggest that you discuss your view in int-sat email list (copied)

Thanks
Hesham

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023, 5:31 PM David Lang <david at lang.hm> wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Sep 2023, Hesham ElBakoury wrote:
>
> > Given the discussions in this email thread, what IETF should standardize
> in
> > priority order  for the integrated NTN terrestrial networks?
>
> I don't see why you need to do any particular standardization to integrate
> things like starlink into terrestrial networks.
>
> Just like IETF didn't need to standardize ethernet/token
> ring/arcnet/modems to
> make them compatible with each other. They all talk IP, and a computer
> with a
> link to each of them can serve as a gateway (and this included proprietary
> modems that were not compatible with anything else, the network didn't
> care)
>
> Starlink is just another IP path, all the tools that you use with any
> other ISP
> work on that path (or are restricted like many other consumer ISPs with
> dynamic
> addressing, no inbound connections, no BGP peering, etc. No reason that
> the
> those couldn't work, SpaceX just opts not to support them on consumer
> dishes)
>
> I'll turn the question back to you, what is the problem that you think is
> there
> that needs to be solved?
>
> David Lang
>
> > Thanks,
> > Hesham
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 12:59 PM David Lang via Starlink <
> > starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >
> >> it's very clear that there is a computer in the dishy that you are
> talking
> >> to.
> >> You get the network connection while the dishy is not connected to the
> >> satellites (there's even a status page and controls, stowing and
> unstowing
> >> for
> >> example)
> >>
> >> I think we've seen that the dishy is running linux (I know the routers
> run
> >> an
> >> old openwrt), but I don't remember the details of the dishy software.
> >>
> >> David Lang
> >>
> >>   On Sun, 17 Sep 2023, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink wrote:
> >>
> >>> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 19:21:50 +0200
> >>> From: Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net>
> >>> Reply-To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu at gmail.com>
> >>> To: starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Main hurdles against the Integration of
> >> Satellites and
> >>>      Terrestial Networks
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Le 16/09/2023 à 01:32, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink a écrit :
> >>>> On 16/09/2023 5:52 am, David Lang wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In addition to that Ulrich says, the dishy is a full computer, it's
> >>>>> output is ethernet/IP and with some adapters or cable changes, you
> >>>>> can plug it directly into a router.
> >>>>
> >>>> We've done that with the Yaosheng PoE Dishy adapter - actually plugged
> >>>> a DHCP client straight in - and it "works" but with a noticeably
> >>>> higher rate of disconnects.
> >>>
> >>> It is good to know one can plug a DHCP client into the Ethernet of the
> >>> DISHY and receive DHCP replies.
> >>>
> >>> But that would be only a lead into what kind of DHCPv4 is supported, or
> >> not.
> >>>
> >>> I would ask to know whether the DHCP server runs on the DISHY, or
> >>> whether it is on the ground network of starlink, i.e. the reply to DHCP
> >>> request comes after 50ms, or after 500microseconds (timestamp
> difference
> >>> can be seen in the wireshark run on that Ethernet).
> >>>
> >>> This (DHCP server daemon on dishy or on ground segment) has an impact
> of
> >>> how IPv6  can be, or is, made to work.
> >>>
> >>> This kind of behaviour of DHCP - basically asking who allocates an
> >>> address - has seen a continous evolution in 3GPP cellular networks
> since
> >>> they appeared.  Nowadays the DHCP behaviour is very complex in a 3GPP
> >>> network; even in a typical smartphone there are intricacies about where
> >>> and how the DHCP client and server works. With it comes the problem of
> >>> /64 in cellular networks (which some dont call a problem, but I do).
> >>>
> >>> So, it would be interesting to see whether starlink has the same /64
> >>> problem as 3GPP has, or is free of it (simply put: can I connect
> several
> >>> Ethernet subnets in my home to starlink, in native IPv6 that is, or
> >> not?).
> >>>
> >>> Alex
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> Starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> Starlink mailing list
> >> Starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> >>
> >
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